Armored Cars

[wphyzic]

Howdy lads!

I could be wrong, but I can't see any difference in armored car's speed vs. tracked vehicles. They are in fact up to 3x faster IRL and even faster on roads. I had the priviledge to be an exchange student with a family in Germany and I know this for a fact: my "pflegevater"(foster father) spent most of the war from 1939 to the surrender in a sdkfz 234 in the 10th Pz and 15th PG and lived to tell the tale BECAUSE of the speed and agility of the vehicle. They seem to me to be WAY too slow in game.

Also, does the gunnery algorithim take target speed into account? Speaking as a former combat infantryman, side shots are great if the target is motionless, but actually much tougher to hit than frontal shot if the target is moving ( I commanded a TOW section for a while in the 1st Cav, so I speak from experience rather than research).

Opinions?

[Tejszd]

Armored cars start moving quicker though once both vehicles are at top speed there doesn't seem to be a differance....

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: wphyzic

Also, does the gunnery algorithim take target speed into account? Speaking as a former combat infantryman, side shots are great if the target is motionless, but actually much tougher to hit than frontal shot if the target is moving ( I commanded a TOW section for a while in the 1st Cav, so I speak from experience rather than research).

Opinions?

AFAIK all the hit calculations are done when firing. When I play CCMT, sometimes a vehicle can start moving after fired upon (with RPG for example) and then get hit by a projectile that was fired when it was immobile 10 meters away.
When I played yesterday, I destroyed a tank with an AT missile despite that it not only started moving, but also moved behind a building.

[Andrew Williams]

When I played yesterday, I destroyed a tank with an AT missile despite that it not only started moving, but also moved behind a building.

Rationalise it this way.

You start forward in your armd. vehicle.

The enemy fires and penetrates vehicle.

You roll on a few metres and then explode.

[Platoon_Michael]

Speed is non-existent in CC.
Try it for yourself and see.
Pick any map that gives you plenty of open space and put all three in line and move them.
A Tank
An ATCar
And Troops all move at the same speed.
Sometimes (not always) the Vehicles turn left/right before moving, but the speed of all 3 is the same.

But they won’t fix it and won’t tell you it exists.(except maybe now)
It was too much work to fix for you.

Not only that but there is no difference in Terrain as to how they move.
They still all move the same.

I.E. Snow/Mud/Paved road changes Nothing.
So don't be surprised that weather doesnt really do anything other than effect support and give you that feel good feeling.

Yes some Terrain effects movement but more or less it just pisses you off once you are accustomed to seeing the speed of movement the game has showed you so many times over.


Most likely this is some selling point or advanced feature for the next CC but NOT this one.
In todays world of Video games flaws like this are a JOKE.

P.S.
Thanks for your 50 bucks,better luck next time.

[Andrew Williams]

A Tank
An ATCar
And Troops all move at the same speed.
Sometimes (not always) the Vehicles turn left/right before moving, but the speed of all 3 is the same.

just tested this and you are wrong.... sorry.

[Platoon_Michael]

Test again.

[Platoon_Michael]

However you want to call it.
Speed
Animation
 
They are the same,they all arrive at the same time.

[Andrew Williams]

No they don't

My tanks overtake and then leave behind my infantry.


Tanks are arriving first, well in front of infantry even if infantry are given a head start.

[Platoon_Michael]

well it's not like anyone else cant see this for themselves.

[Andrew Williams]

correct

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

When I played yesterday, I destroyed a tank with an AT missile despite that it not only started moving, but also moved behind a building.

Rationalise it this way.

You start forward in your armd. vehicle.

The enemy fires and penetrates vehicle.

You roll on a few metres and then explode.

What about the time of flight to target?

Also, I don't need to rationalise - after all, CCMT is supposed to accurately and realistically model modern equipment and accurately depict modern warfare. Moving to cover to avoid an ATGM is a valid military tactic.

ORIGINAL: TACSOP

Anti tank guided missiles may be encountered in almost any location. these are small, man portable, and can be operated by a crew of one. Possible locations include depressions, ruins, tree lines, buildings, helicopters, and reverse slope from vehicle mounts. Due to their use of HEAT warheads they will normally attempt to get flank shots. These weapons will normally be encountered in the following circumstances: when moving through a defile, when the tank moves out of cover, at corners, in urban or built up areas. General methods for countering ATGMs are basic fire and maneuver. Remember that once one anti tank weapon fires, it is highly likely that there are others in the vicinity. To counter the ATGM crews need to be familiar with the following techniques:

1. Maximize cover given by the ground, or foliage. Moving to cover places an object between you and the missile, even sparse trees and bushes between you and the launcher may be enough to throw the missile off course.
2. Destroy the ATGM. Destroy the launcher with direct fire. You will have approximately 5 seconds to accomplish this. In rare instances when the gunner identifies the incoming missile he may be able to shoot it down with the coax.
3. Keep frontal armor oriented on the launching location. It is highly improbable that a frontal impact would disable or destroy the tank.
4. Suppress the launcher. By firing at the individual controlling the missile you may be able to distract him long enough for him to miss.
5. Obscure your tank using onboard smoke grenades 6. Use fire and maneuver to destroy the launcher7.Move your vehicle in a weaving course and employ sharp turns to try to throw the missile guidance system off.

[Andrew Williams]

Moving to cover to avoid an ATGM is a valid military tactic.

Yes it is.. you just didn't avoid it.

[Andrew Williams]

Also note that the vehicles such as AT guns move much slower than other vehicles... this is because the difference is extreme.... but in all practicality the result is the same.... less extreme differences will be less obvious in game.


Now , don't try and tell me an AT gun gets to the other side of the map as fast as a Panther.


EDIT: spelling

[Moss Orleni]

I agree with Andrew here.

It's easy to see to see the difference in movement rates between different infantry teams (compare a scout team with a HMG team), or between team members (compare a wounded fatigued HMG carrier with his fresh commander). Same goes for vehicles, AFVs, guns, ...
And if you don't believe it, play with the data files to set some extreme values and... test again [:)]

Moss

[Andrew Williams]

I did some further testing on speed settings by adjusting the speed values.

I changed the jagdpanzer IV speed to 20. (was 175) (column DP... MAX speed)

Then lined up all the vehicles and raced them over 100m. (jgpIV, PZIV, sdkfz/251, sdkfz234)

The jagdpanzer IV was left eating dust.


I then did the same with the PZIV and reset the jagdpanzer Iv to 175

same results the PZIV was left behind (as expected)

The speed settings look to be working correctly...

[Senior Drill]

I agree with Andrew. I've done extensive testing of all movement rates for infantry and vehicles. For vehicles it is all about acceleration and max speed (and this is the key) on the same terrain and with the same initial heading.

In a grouped vehicle move, only one vehicle will begin the move. After a very short interval, the game engine will complete the order for the first vehicle on the priority list it has created for itself and begine the next. By the time, say three or four seconds real and game time that it gets to the sixth or seventh, those may have taken upon themselves to start a re-orientation to face some unspotted enemy (a game "feature" that has been pointed out ad naseum) and will take a couple more seconds to get back into the chocks.

If Vehicle 2 has better terrain to move into than Vehicle 1, it will get off the blocks faster. If Vehicle 1 as better acceleration than Vehicle 2, it stands a chance to overtake the slower acceleration of Vehicle 2 even though it is in slower terrain.

Max Speed works. You can top out any vehicle at a crawl or at Formula 1 speeds. Acceleration works. You can burn virtual tread on a tank that in RL would give the crew whiplash and have the track pins snapping and popping like pop corn and roll that tank clean off the busted track by the momentum it gained in the first mega tile.

[nietsche]

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill


Max Speed works. You can top out any vehicle at a crawl or at Formula 1 speeds. Acceleration works. You can burn virtual tread on a tank that in RL would give the crew whiplash and have the track pins snapping and popping like pop corn and roll that tank clean off the busted track by the momentum it gained in the first mega tile.

OMG!So UNREALISTIC :p
I am sure that someone will declare war against several countries over this issue, believe me there are precedents...

I wonder how much of the speculation about things like speed, accuracy etc is due to not being able to verify things visually... and the desire from a lot of players to be near perfect in what they do in the game.

Just musing here ... the game ceases to be a game when you have all the information available to you but in real combat, you have actually got a greater richness of information available. This is beneficial and detrimental, depending on how you process masses of information.