Who destroyed tiger 007

[gunny]

Just saw a really interesting episode of Battlefield Mysteries on the reinactment of Whitmann's last day at Gaumesnil including use of surveyers, distance markers, reviewing archives of wittness accounts, photographs and the remaining parts of the Tiger itself.

It was always narrowed down to 3 possibilities. The Fireflies of the British Northamptonshire Yeomanry, the Shermans of of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers, or a Hawker typhoon Aircraft.

What they do know is the fatal blow came from the rear left quarter or deck. The turret and forward flanks had no penetrations. The closest firefly was 947 meters when 007 was hit, and slghtly forward right at 2 o'clock from the forward facing of the tiger. so that ruled them out , although they likely took out the other tigers of Whitmann's platoon.

The ground sweep actually located a rocket casing of the type that would be launched by a typhoon. However that still remained unsubstantiated

The Sherbrook Shermans were actually only 150 meters to the rear left flank of the Tiger. There was a file interview with the crew that said made the claim they delivered the blow.

The show closed with a very definitive answer on who destroyed tank 007, although subjective it made a very convincing documentry.

[Phatguy]

Does it really matter, such an insignificant blip in the grand scheme of WW2? Sometimes these tv types go overboard and waste untold moolah doing these shows when the fact remains they need to siphon that kind of money to companies like Matrix so they can get about dealing with issues we are interested in.. mainly cheaper Historical games with superb AI which are subsidized by hollywood moguls !

[gunny]

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Does it really matter, such an insignificant blip in the grand scheme of WW2? Sometimes these tv types go overboard and waste untold moolah doing these shows when the fact remains they need to siphon that kind of money to companies like Matrix so they can get about dealing with issues we are interested in.. mainly cheaper Historical games with superb AI which are subsidized by hollywood moguls !

[:D][:D]well you just took the idiot of the year award

[06 Maestro]

Years ago, I read some excerpts from Whitmann's driver (I think he wrote the book). IIRC, he is the one that stated the tank was destroyed in an air attack. It had always been my understanding that is what occurred. IIRC (it was along time ago I read this stuff), Whitmann was preparing to move forward into a firing position. He sent his long time crew member out to take a look over the berm. I do not believe that a battle hardened tank commander would have ignored-or missed the presence of enemy tanks within 150 meters to his rear flank. I think the story about the Shermans' getting a shot, or even being close enough to do so, is BS.

[stevemk1a]

This is another of those 'grenade' topics, much like Bismarck - scuttled or sunk! [;)]

[goodwoodrw]

Willy u should take this topic more seriously, history has already confirmed the Bismarck and Wittman's tank was destroyed by a 5 inch rocket fired by a Gloster Gladiator piloted by a tankie from the Northamptonshire Yeomanry of the Sherbrooke Hussar Sqn. [:D]

[PzB74]

This "mystery" has been officially solved.

1NY, Sherman equiped armoured regiment in the independent British 33rd Armoured Bde consisting of 47 Shermans and 12 Fireflies were preparing to advance to At-Aignan on the 8th of August 1944.

Wittman led a group of 4-5 Tigers as part of a half witted dash to throw of the Allied offensive in order to gain more time to bring in reinforcements to prevent the Falaise gap from being closed.

Tanks belonging to 3 Troop A Sqd 1NY and Rest A Sqd 1NY were lying in defensive positiong along a wooded orchard (Delle de la Roque south west of St-Aignan) and Wittmans Tigers were spotted and allowed to close to within 1100 meters before firing at their flanks. Sgt Gordons VC Firefly No 12 named "Velikye Luki" fires a round directly into Tiger number 007 (Wittman was not in his usual Tiger 205 which was being repaired) and after a few seconds the tank blew up, the tower being thrown clear and no one inside survived. In all 3 Tigers were destroyed in this encounted with just a few rounds being fired.

The Fireflies 17 pounder gun was the equal to the 88' and a deadly threat to any Tigers.

Ref. "Sherman Firefly vs Tiger, Normandy 1944" <Stephen A Hart>

[Phatguy]

ORIGINAL: gunny

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

Does it really matter, such an insignificant blip in the grand scheme of WW2? Sometimes these tv types go overboard and waste untold moolah doing these shows when the fact remains they need to siphon that kind of money to companies like Matrix so they can get about dealing with issues we are interested in.. mainly cheaper Historical games with superb AI which are subsidized by hollywood moguls !

[:D][:D]well you just took the idiot of the year award

Thats not polite!You are lucky i'm in my holiday spirit mood

and anyways whats wrong with asking for games with better AI?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: willy

This is another of those 'grenade' topics, much like Bismarck - scuttled or sunk! [;)]

OMG, its spread to General Discussion!

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: PzB
Tanks belonging to 3 Troop A Sqd 1NY and Rest A Sqd 1NY were lying in defensive positiong along a wooded orchard (Delle de la Roque south west of St-Aignan) and Wittmans Tigers were spotted and allowed to close to within 1100 meters before firing at their flanks. Sgt Gordons VC Firefly No 12 named "Velikye Luki" fires a round directly into Tiger number 007 (Wittman was not in his usual Tiger 205 which was being repaired) and after a few seconds the tank blew up, the tower being thrown clear and no one inside survived. In all 3 Tigers were destroyed in this encounted with just a few rounds being fired.

This is a possibility. The one fly in the ointment is that the hit seems to be on the engine deck. But it is said that the fireflys were on a rise above the Tigers thus shooting down.
We have Google Earth at our disposal now and with its elevation tool could find out if that were possible.

[PzB74]

Since there were only a handful operational Tigers left in Normandie at this time of the conflict and the wreckage of 3 were found on the battlefield in this exact location I'd put my cents on this scenario. Sgt Ekins never claimed credit for this feat either, in contradiction to a lot of other "glory hunters" [8|]

Tiger 007 destroyed

I doubt that a rocket hit from the air would blow a Tiger sky high, even a direct hit in the engine block would most likely not cause the turret to fly off - the engine block is massive and would absorb the hit after it penetrated the armor. A 17 pounder hit from the side on the other side..

Still, Hart's book doesn't mention anything about the physical examination of the destroyed Tiger 007. Probably because an official one doesn't exist?