Wish List Thread

This new Commander's Edition of Harpoon Classic includes land units, neutral and unknown sides, an improved radar and area ECM model and a host of other improvements. Rounding that out are over 200 scenarios and the WestPac Battleset. Try out this great new version of the classic Harpoon!
fsleeper
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by fsleeper »

...and there's this thing called VC :)
 
Harpoon has always had such a great "potential", but it's always never been seized. 3 full versions and since the first version the same problems remains (and hence why it is where it is today) - graphics, graphic, graphics.  It's not something that can be casually dismissed as "yea, but that's a lot of work".  That "busy" work is THE reason Harpoon is where it is today. ALL modern applications seriously address graphics - EVEN WORD PROCESSORS! Harpoon was abandoned en-mass by the community (customer / major game investment) bar-none for lack of asthetic appeal (i.e. loss of immersion / user friendly UI - especially required for complex environments).
 
Harpoon can STILL crush anything that could be called "competition" - if ONLY you could secure a significant funding and ATTACK the problem - UI / images / animation / asthetic appeal / movies / polished product (including Manual / integrated tutorial). Literally, it's a no-loss venture at this point. Do it and succeed - AWESOME!  Do it and fail, *shrug* - same results as NOT trying and still failing, except the later is either laziness or irresponsible...
 
Damn harsh words I know - but personally frustrated as I LOVE Harpoon and have to watch it die for a terrible reason....
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

Contribute and forget the bashing perhaps?  You've got me programming yet I'm one of the few who would even touch the platform photos.  That 40 or 60 or however many hours would have fixed a lot of bugs, added a lot of features, but no, it was spent working on platform photos that I don't care a bit about, not one little bit.  Sure I'd like to see every platform with a photo or three or five, but I have zero interest in that and don't think it will sell nearly as many copies of the game as fixing bugs and expanding the game capabilities, and yes, at some point maybe replacing the user interface.  H3 will get a new user interface, but heck, they (some of them, beta testers no) also get paid for their efforts!
 
HCE is volunteer driven, if you don't like the game, become a beta tester, become a platform photo person, become a support person.  I have a good 15-20 fixes/tweaks/features implemented but untested beyond my own tinkering during implementation.  I may as well take a few months off and wait for someone to verify that what I thought I did was actually what I did. 
 
The real rub is that I'm also a customer.  I paid $62.29 for a copy to give to someone else.  That brings with it some expectation, it is a non-trivial amount of money.  I happen to know that while buying HC, I'm really paying for H3.  So if you expect something from HC, speaking up is a good first step, and while it hurts me personally to hear you speak of the work I've done as if it is nothing I'd rather hear it and at least have a chance to know about it than not ever knowing.  I wish someone was willing to pay me a livable wage to work on HC full time but so far nobody is offering even that (a comfortable wage would be even better!).  Given time HC will get a new interface, it will get a lot of other things as well.  But as it stands, my $62.29 is going mostly to better H3 (ANW) and that will see a replaced UI sooner than HCE (well, that's the plan anyway).  In that respect the cost of HC is hard to swallow and there is an implicit right to gripe when spending that money.
 
What can a person who wants to support HC do?  Well, it isn't to buy more copies, that's funding H3, it is becoming part of the HC process via beta testing or any number of other roles.  There is no shortage of administrative work if that's your thing.  How do you get involved?  Come see us at harpgamer.com, there are multiple chat links there, I'm frequently around to chat (though being ill since August has meant somewhat fewer hours), ask the questions you need to ask to see if you are crazy enough to get involved in this game.  If that doesn't dissuade you, head right on over to AGSI and sign the NDA as part of the beta tester sign-up process.  http://forum.computerharpoon.com/viewtopic.php?t=49
 
Read about the HC3 development group for a little more detail on how development is organized.  I do this because I like the Harpoon games and want to see HC live on; it is a hobby for me (hobby being probably the worst and best thing that could be said).
Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner
rickier65
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by rickier65 »

ORIGINAL: TonyE

Contribute and forget the bashing perhaps?  You've got me programming yet I'm one of the few who would even touch the platform photos.  That 40 or 60 or however many hours would have fixed a lot of bugs, added a lot of features, but no, it was spent working on platform photos that I don't care a bit about, not one little bit.  Sure I'd like to see every platform with a photo or three or five, but I have zero interest in that and don't think it will sell nearly as many copies of the game as fixing bugs and expanding the game capabilities, and yes, at some point maybe replacing the user interface.  H3 will get a new user interface, but heck, they (some of them, beta testers no) also get paid for their efforts!

HCE is volunteer driven, if you don't like the game, become a beta tester, become a platform photo person, become a support person.  I have a good 15-20 fixes/tweaks/features implemented but untested beyond my own tinkering during implementation.  I may as well take a few months off and wait for someone to verify that what I thought I did was actually what I did. 

The real rub is that I'm also a customer.  I paid $62.29 for a copy to give to someone else.  That brings with it some expectation, it is a non-trivial amount of money.  I happen to know that while buying HC, I'm really paying for H3.  So if you expect something from HC, speaking up is a good first step, and while it hurts me personally to hear you speak of the work I've done as if it is nothing I'd rather hear it and at least have a chance to know about it than not ever knowing.  I wish someone was willing to pay me a livable wage to work on HC full time but so far nobody is offering even that (a comfortable wage would be even better!).  Given time HC will get a new interface, it will get a lot of other things as well.  But as it stands, my $62.29 is going mostly to better H3 (ANW) and that will see a replaced UI sooner than HCE (well, that's the plan anyway).  In that respect the cost of HC is hard to swallow and there is an implicit right to gripe when spending that money.

What can a person who wants to support HC do?  Well, it isn't to buy more copies, that's funding H3, it is becoming part of the HC process via beta testing or any number of other roles.  There is no shortage of administrative work if that's your thing.  How do you get involved?  Come see us at harpgamer.com, there are multiple chat links there, I'm frequently around to chat (though being ill since August has meant somewhat fewer hours), ask the questions you need to ask to see if you are crazy enough to get involved in this game.  If that doesn't dissuade you, head right on over to AGSI and sign the NDA as part of the beta tester sign-up process.  http://forum.computerharpoon.com/viewtopic.php?t=49

Read about the HC3 development group for a little more detail on how development is organized.  I do this because I like the Harpoon games and want to see HC live on; it is a hobby for me (hobby being probably the worst and best thing that could be said).


Happy Easter Tony! Ihope you noted that this was actually fssleeper first post on a matrix forum - (I thought it was pretty raw myself), but then I've been following all these harpoon thrueads myself for a while.

HCE is on my short list for birthday - I played it quite a while back (when it was put out by 360).

If I do get back into it, I'll stop in at the harp site and see if I can help. I have to admit, Harpoon was only Navy game I've played, more of a landlubber, but I recall enjoying harpoon.

And from what ive read in here, you anything but lazy! you've been posting and responding like crazy. (to say nothing of creating new things!).

Rick


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PatinAZ
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Some of us know better

Post by PatinAZ »

Some of us know - and appreciate - the effort it takes to keep this going. This game - rather Naval Simulation - is not going to sell 500 thousand copies to teenagers. And no company is going to pay for major development. While the Poster is bashing the wish list thread, I want to appreciate the dedicated few who kept the faith and put this upgrade out. AND the dedication to look at and correct bugs to put out FREE update patches.
So, Congratulations, and keep the faith on this. I'm not looking for a flashy shooter game.

-------->>> Pat
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Shark7
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by Shark7 »

ORIGINAL: fsleeper

...and there's this thing called VC :)

Harpoon has always had such a great "potential", but it's always never been seized. 3 full versions and since the first version the same problems remains (and hence why it is where it is today) - graphics, graphic, graphics.  It's not something that can be casually dismissed as "yea, but that's a lot of work".  That "busy" work is THE reason Harpoon is where it is today. ALL modern applications seriously address graphics - EVEN WORD PROCESSORS! Harpoon was abandoned en-mass by the community (customer / major game investment) bar-none for lack of asthetic appeal (i.e. loss of immersion / user friendly UI - especially required for complex environments).

Harpoon can STILL crush anything that could be called "competition" - if ONLY you could secure a significant funding and ATTACK the problem - UI / images / animation / asthetic appeal / movies / polished product (including Manual / integrated tutorial). Literally, it's a no-loss venture at this point. Do it and succeed - AWESOME!  Do it and fail, *shrug* - same results as NOT trying and still failing, except the later is either laziness or irresponsible...

Damn harsh words I know - but personally frustrated as I LOVE Harpoon and have to watch it die for a terrible reason....

You know, I've played lots of games that were plenty pretty, but they still sucked because the gameplay was horrible. Given a choice between pretty graphics or exceptional gameplay, I am going to pick gameplay everytime. Graphics aren't everything, if the gameplay is bad sales will tank anyway.

And here's another point, the game is around 20 years old still going strong. That is a very elite club to be in, most games completely die out after a half dozen years or less.
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mack2
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by mack2 »

ORIGINAL: fsleeper

...and there's this thing called VC :)

Harpoon has always had such a great "potential", but it's always never been seized. 3 full versions and since the first version the same problems remains (and hence why it is where it is today) - graphics, graphic, graphics. It's not something that can be casually dismissed as "yea, but that's a lot of work". That "busy" work is THE reason Harpoon is where it is today. ALL modern applications seriously address graphics - EVEN WORD PROCESSORS! Harpoon was abandoned en-mass by the community (customer / major game investment) bar-none for lack of asthetic appeal (i.e. loss of immersion / user friendly UI - especially required for complex environments).

Harpoon can STILL crush anything that could be called "competition" - if ONLY you could secure a significant funding and ATTACK the problem - UI / images / animation / asthetic appeal / movies / polished product (including Manual / integrated tutorial). Literally, it's a no-loss venture at this point. Do it and succeed - AWESOME! Do it and fail, *shrug* - same results as NOT trying and still failing, except the later is either laziness or irresponsible...

Damn harsh words I know - but personally frustrated as I LOVE Harpoon and have to watch it die for a terrible reason....

Yeah, lets go get some funding. Maybe a publisher like Ubisoft will give us some. It will have a modern UI, 3d graphics and other whiz-bang production features. Maybe we could call it Harpoon 4. A certain sure-fire success.
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

Hehe, and I do agree with the sentiment that computer Harpoon is nowhere near where it should be after 20 years.  Fsleeper, I think your complaint isn't in the correct forum.  Thanks to everyone else, we try, CV32 and I both (most of the HC Gold Team actually) staked our Harpoon futures fighting for that Harpoon that should have been.  That was the form of influence we had, threaten our withdrawal and that's exactly what we did, and why HCE wasn't released in 2004, the team was gone, resigned in disgust! 
 
Anyway, I'll try not to bite on too many more provocations, though now and again I will be weak [:@]&nbsp; Still, if you guys want a better HC, joining the insanity is the best route (plus you get to play with the beta builds, which so far are stable <that'll change too>).
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner
darknite
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by darknite »

Kudos to Tony for the updated naval gunfire model! It's great to see the rounds banging out in the message log.

I have a few q's regarding other combat issues as it stands, however (actually more of a wishlist)...

1) Can you create a gunfire 'cease fire' button? I hate wasting ammo on a dead target!

2) <dead horse> SAM control </dead horse>. I like the ability to control global SAM fire rates/engagement ranges. I'd like this to be granular to the individual platform and be able tell a platform not to fire SAMs (besides turning their radar off). Better yet I'd like to be able to issue engagement priorities to each platform - not issue orders for SAM fire itself, just limit a platform as what to target its' SAMs at.

Example - Select the Bunker Hill in the unit window, click the SAM control button in it's Details window and scroll down/map click to tell it to concentrate on Missile Group XYZ. It would do this until Missile Group XYZ ceased to exist and then go back to automatic mode.

Some sort of graphic next to the icon in the unit window, like the lightning bolt used for jamming, would indicate that a platform is under individual SAM control and would help management. ("Why doesn't the Bunker Hill fire! Oh yeah, I told it not too!")

3) Waypoints for I/M/TARH type weapons. Limit them to their H4 number of waypoints but plot missile fire using a screen similar to Set Course, with the seeker going active on the final waypoint. I haven't tried it for a while but I seem to recall being able to set torpedo courses once launched. Or was that H3...?

4) An optional 'Time on Target' field in the Attack screen that would tell you when the selected weapon being launched would reach the targetted point (would be nice for each Waypoint, too, if implemented). Very handy for planning saturation attacks.

5) An optional 'best weapon' range circle option for enemy forces. When a given range circle is selected for the enemy side it will display the one for the longest ranged appropriate weapon capable of being carried on that platform, regardless of the platform's actual current loadout. This range circle does not change regardless of the platform's armament status (no freebie intel!).

6) Add an optional 'guns only' range circle option which toggles with the surface & air weapon range circle.

7) Add a value to a platform's Details page showing it's current 'noise' level for Passive Sonar detection purposes. This provides feedback to users trying to walk that line of stealthiness vs speed during sub stalks. For me this would singlehandedly improve using subs in the game.

8) Add an optional flag to the scenario editor that allows a scenario designer to suppress a facility's inherent SAM &/or sensors. This allows the scenario designer to place unit defenses and sensors at a facility without concern for the ones embedded with it in the DB.

9) Allow the scenario designer to alter aircraft ready times. This could be as global as saying that Clean/Air-to-Air loadouts take X minutes, Loaded/Strike loadouts take Y minutes and Helicopters take Z minutes - with differences allowed between prepping a/c at a land base and on a ship.

10) We need Godzilla modeled now that we have the WestPac! :>

11) Toggle to view all plotted courses. This used to work. Helpful for coordinating different groups without having to remember what other group's course tracks looked like.

Thanks for listening!

DN
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RA5C
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by RA5C »

[font="microsoft sans serif"]Just wondering?.. is there a list somewhere with all the wish list items?&nbsp; I have a couple that I would list but fear they are redundant.&nbsp; Maybe a location where they might be listed in categories such as "In The Works", "Maybe Later" and "No Way In Hell"?&nbsp; Thanks...[/font]
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by CV32 »

ORIGINAL: RA5C
Just wondering?.. is there a list somewhere with all the wish list items? I have a couple that I would list but fear they are redundant. Maybe a location where they might be listed in categories such as "In The Works", "Maybe Later" and "No Way In Hell"? Thanks...

Pat, there's a whole subforum for wish lists at HarpGamer here.
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by RA5C »

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]Thanks for the response. Between all these sites (HarpGamer, Matrix, AGSI, etc.), I should have asked which one is the "official consolodated" list? I guess I'll just create mine and if I repeat some, sorry.[/font]
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

HarpGamer is the one I spend most time at (for wishlists).&nbsp; So that's as official as it gets, it is way too messy for me here to sort through.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
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Tony Eischens
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

Allrighty, I've taken note of all wishlist items to this point.&nbsp; I still prefer you making your wishlists at HarpGamer but these haven't been ignored.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
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Tony Eischens
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TonyE
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

FYI, the condensed list of wishes is available at:
&nbsp;&nbsp;http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?showtopic=3071
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Tony Eischens
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PongoDeMer
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by PongoDeMer »

1) There may be a case for better graphics, but the Harpoon series of games is surely aimed at a relatively small niche market: naval personnel and serious stragegists/tacticians. The average commercial computer game is designed for high initial sales, with a much shorter commercial life. Games come and games go, but products like Harpoon, Steel Panthers, Combat Mission and the Campaign series will always be around due to their basic excellence. Even with the advent of super whizzo 3D graphics, there is still nothing to touch them.

2) The cartoon ship graphics showing missiles being fired, and incoming may be crude but in my humble opinion, they are very effective indeed! This may be the wrong forum for this, but would sombody in authority please consider including them in H3ANW in a future patch? I much prefer them to the launch and strike videos and when one of your ships takes incoming fire, the cartoon graphic really brings it home to you that the symbol being attacked is really an actual vessel.

Just a thought...

Pongo
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by cpdeyoung »

I have never given a care for animation.&nbsp; I am a pre-video guy and a nice flat text page on a website is preferable to a YouTube vid any day.
&nbsp;
But ... I love watching the missles coming in, and seeing it head for a spot I recognize as a more likely hit.&nbsp; I would never give it up for a simple report "4 hits, 7 misses".&nbsp; Isn't psychology grand?
&nbsp;
Chuck
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

If you have Carriers at War experience, would you say you enjoy (note, I'm not saying like) the Carriers at War animations better or the HC ones better?&nbsp; I'm still unsure whether modern warfare can use the Carriers at War style if the missile comes out of the wrong part of the ship but the stick figures are abstract enough that I know I don't care.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
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HarpGamer.com Co-Owner
sandy61
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by sandy61 »

How about the ability to give Anti-sub aircraft a patrol box to work in so they automatically drop sonobouys and search.
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by TonyE »

ORIGINAL: T6Simtek

How about the ability to give Anti-sub aircraft a patrol box to work in so they automatically drop sonobouys and search.

What to do at the destination of LR patrols (ASW included) is something that WILL happen IN TIME [8D]. It may well be the highest priority big project, unfortunately for you lower priority big projects lay groundwork so you'll have to wait a while.
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sandy61
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RE: Wish List Thread

Post by sandy61 »

Thanks for the info, I'm keeping you busy today.
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