Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Maximum-Football 2.0 is the latest and greatest release from the acclaimed sports management video game studio, Wintervalley Software. Bringing a whole host of new features like full Xbox 360 controller support, full DirectX 9.0 utilization, and scores of other upgrades and improvements, Maximum-Football 2.0 delivers on gameplay and fun like a bullet pass through double coverage. Like its predecessor, Maximum-Football 2.0 allows players to experience the thrill of managing a team in any league!

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Mykal
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Mykal »

You may just lurk LTF............
but I already knew you was around............. using my super powers again [:D]

Oh alright then, maybe its cos you are often on my site [8|]
Well super powers is on my christmas list at least [;)]
grandmarquis84
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by grandmarquis84 »

The only way I can see paying for anything is if it improves or adds to the engine of the game or how it runs: trades, different camera angles, things like that.  Uniforms and stadiums are not worth buying since we can make those and add those ourselves.
regenerator
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by regenerator »

So an interception return can NEVER happen in a simulated game, even with the appropriate "simgame_LEAGUE.dat" file setting "InterceptionAverage" turned up to, say, 99? Have you tried this?
mbsports
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by mbsports »

Regen - I've got it at 59 right now and I play with it all the time to try to make sure we don't have too little or too few INTs.

it's actually an inverse so at 99 you'll never see a pick.  At 1 though this is what I have in a game
Passing:
SSK -- CRANDELL 0-18, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 19 INT, 0.0YPA, 0.0R
SZARKA 0-1, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 0 INT, 0.0YPA, 39.6R
NFL -- PAYTON 0-1, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 0 INT, 0.0YPA, 39.6R
SIMMS 0-23, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 24 INT, 0.0YPA, 0.0R

Yup you got it - every pass was an INT. 

The final score - Roughriders 2 Newfoundland Knights 0

Not a single one was returned for a score and we had 43 INTs in the game.

Not only can an INT never be returned for a score but a PR or KR can never be returned for a TD in a simmed game.

Yards returned longest was 42 but still not a TD...

Run #2
Passing:
BC -- GREEN 0-1, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 0 INT, 0.0YPA, 39.6R
JACKSON 0-24, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 25 INT, 0.0YPA, 0.0R
QUE -- GRIEB 0-21, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 23 INT, 0.0YPA, 0.0R
CORNISH 0-2, 0 YDS, 0 TD, 0 INT, 0.0YPA, 39.6R

48 more int - again the max is 42 yards for an INT and there is no selection to make this longer or shorter. I have to say I guess it COULD happen but I haven't seen it in 3 seasons one single time.





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Marauders
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Marauders »

Lucas718 stated: I understand he put in many many hours on the game and it eventually burned him out. I know he took the game further than he ever intended but there are still some parts that could use work. For him to just drop the whole project really looks bad. How can anyone have faith in him to buy another product he creates?


It does look bad. he had good reason to get away, but going cold turkey is a bit much. It will harm future sales of any future title. In the internet world, a little bit of bad PR goes a long way.
I disagree that the game would have been no more popular than Backyard Football if he had waited to release it.


What I meant was that Maximum Football would have been no more an approximation of football than Backyard Football.
A quality product will attract customers. Word will get around. PC sports gamers have been begging for a successor to Football Pro for nearly a decade now. A lot of people were turned off by the condition the game was in when it was released and they never came back to give the game another chance.

I agree. This is a point that myself and others made in the old forums, Matrix Games forums, and beta. It would have been an easier build if the design blueprint was more complete from the start.
It may sound like I'm just bashing the game but I do still enjoy it and play it nearly every day. I have a 76 team NCAA league running. I just really wish he would have stuck around to continue development. The whole thing opened old wounds from the FBPro 99 debacle because of the way it ended.

It isn't half as bad as FBPro 99, but it could have been better.
You guys on the beta team deserve a lot of credit for sticking with the game even though your suggestions and recommendations were not being implemented. I give you all credit for trying.

I appreciate your comments. Let me state this clearly, David did implement many suggestions from myself and the beta team. He worked is ass off to improve the game in many ways. The problem was that there wasn't enough revenue to keep those kind of hours with the game. Over time, that also meant that David became more resistant to development suggestions from the beta team.

Let's face it, support for the game from outside of the community was soft. Too many game players wanted Madden graphics, and they didn't want to pay up front to support the project. That, combined with the pricing of the game, forced a situation where the installed user base was less that it really should have been. I also suspect that there was some piracy of Maximum Football, and that hurt sales.
I also play OOTP baseball. I have bought every version since OOTP3. Markus Heinsohn is the role model every one-man developer team should follow. He communicates with the users frequently. He makes himself part of the community and he tirelessly pumps out quality updates. He has established a track record of great support for the game. His is the only game I pre-order every year. I guess I had hoped to see the same from David and I'm disappointed that he chose not to stick around to finish what he started.

I find it ironic that community members supported other games by purchasing expansions and updates, but some are unwilling to do so with Maximum Football. David certainly did stick with the game for quite some time, and what he was looking to do with 2.5 and 3.0 were pretty nice. I didn't always agree with how he was going about it, but he was making an attempt to get things done. That doesn't excuse him walking away from this forum, but it something to consider.
I guess that's really all I have to say about it. There's really no point in continuing to debate about what should have happened. What's done is done. Sorry for hijacking the thread. It was never my intention, but the conversation just kinda drifted away from the original topic.

There is a lot of drift in this thread. The point of it was to see how much support there is for moving forward on areas of the game that can be moved forward.
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Mykal
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Mykal »

The point of it was to see how much support there is for moving forward on areas of the game that can be moved forward.

would be interseting to know exactly what that means
personally (only my opinion) people here are doing their best to keep this community alive
and making what ever they can............ now that may be baby step........ but its moving forward none the less.
Lucas718
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Lucas718 »

ORIGINAL: Marauders
I find it ironic that community members supported other games by purchasing expansions and updates, but some are unwilling to do so with Maximum Football. David certainly did stick with the game for quite some time, and what he was looking to do with 2.5 and 3.0 were pretty nice. I didn't always agree with how he was going about it, but he was making an attempt to get things done. That doesn't excuse him walking away from this forum, but it something to consider.

Well all I can say about OOTP is that Markus built a track record. I know based on past history when I purchase an OOTP update that I am getting a quality product. Can't say the same for Mr. Winter.
There is a lot of drift in this thread. The point of it was to see how much support there is for moving forward on areas of the game that can be moved forward.

I guess I'd have to echo what others have said and ask that you indicate exactly how you plan to move forward. Uniforms and stadiums are not worth paying for.
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jdhalfrack
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by jdhalfrack »

Well, I guess I should chime in here…

First, it’s probably important for everyone to understand that in the year I have owned the game, I have only probably played 2 games. Most of my time with the game was spent figuring out how the fields in each database were affected by stats, options, players, teams, etc.. within the game. So, as far as graphics or any sim engine issues go, I am not the person to talk to.

Now, my opinions of David are similar to those mentioned on this site. I really appreciate the amount of time he had put into this game. Not only as far as the community as a whole goes, but even personally with the multiple PMs I had with him asking about very specific details of his coding and database structure. I have a whole mailbox full of PMs from David. I have no doubt in my mind that he REALLY wanted this game to be big. But, like most of you said, for whatever reason, it just never garnered much interest.

I feel bad that I too have strayed more and more away from Max FB recently. Not only that, but I (and some others) am finding more and more things about Madden that fix what a LOT of people hate about Madden and like about Max FB… so, I am kind of torn about how quickly I should keep proceeding with my discoveries. Before you know it, you’ll have customizable stadiums, 100% customizable playbooks, Canadian rules, indoor stadiums, etc…

I also feel like I have let some of you down by taking so long to update my editors. I am sorry about that. I have found myself busier and busier with everyday life recently, and I don’t foresee it ever getting lighter. But, I will try to, as I find time, update my editor.

I guess I really haven’t contributed anything productive to this conversation. I just kind of re-iterated what others have said. Sorry!

JD
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Latest Max FB Databse Editor: Max FB Database Editor (v 1.7.0)[/center]
therhino
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by therhino »

JD, how close are you guys to getting AFL and/or CFL style play like Maximum Football?
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garysorrell
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by garysorrell »

Naw, life goes on JD. There are plenty of games I thought I would be playing till I grow old...well, im not. Time moves on. I have Madden08 for the PC and am following the progress of the modders. I played Madden02 for years, and will probably, eventually, start spending more time with 08. There will always be a place for MaxFB for me, but I will move on to other things. I already have to some extent. Anyone heard of the Combat Mission series? Im playing the Beyond Overlord version currently.

But JD, dont feel bad at all. It's understandable to spend time modding a game like Madden08, as opposed to MaxFB, it just has a larger user base.
Terryt33
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Terryt33 »

[font="times new roman"]LTR is right, I imagine there is a lot more lurking and the community is bigger than most people realize.  I have been around since the first posts starting surfacing about the “next” FBpro.  I had been waiting and watching for the years previous to the release of MaxFB, just like many, waiting on the release, and the pushed up dates, and the pushed up dates, and….etc. And I have posted very little, mostly because I am too lazy to go look up my matrix password to the forum, and by the time I do, one of the regulars has already had a very similar opinion and beat me to the punch.  Someone else mentioned that we have drifted from the topic of this thread, and I agree.  But, since we have drifted, I did want to throw my two cents in. I wanted to thank the community that has stayed around and kept this title alive.  There have been so many great add ons from a lot of talented people which really increases the enjoyment of the game, since it really was designed to be a tool box of sorts.  I have been lurking for quite a while, and have come up with a Mary Shelley meets Mel Brooks kind of Saturday night live view of Maximum Football.  I call it History of Maximum Football, Part I.  I am going to post it in a separate thread, since it doesn't belong here, and is a little long.  I wrote it mostly to entertain, and possibly provoke some thought as to why things might have happened, through pure speculation.(since I don't really know anybody here, except through reading thousands of posts over the years).  Although the story appears to be slanted, I really didn't mean it to be.  I just wrote the way I saw what happened (from my limited view).  Most of all I hope not to offend anyone, as it is merely fiction, with no one in particular in mind.[/font]
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Mykal
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Mykal »

ORIGINAL: garysorrell

Naw, life goes on JD. There are plenty of games I thought I would be playing till I grow old...well, im not. Time moves on. I have Madden08 for the PC and am following the progress of the modders. I played Madden02 for years, and will probably, eventually, start spending more time with 08. There will always be a place for MaxFB for me, but I will move on to other things. I already have to some extent. Anyone heard of the Combat Mission series? Im playing the Beyond Overlord version currently.

But JD, dont feel bad at all. It's understandable to spend time modding a game like Madden08, as opposed to MaxFB, it just has a larger user base.

I'm right behind ya' Gary
I find myself more and more modding and playing other things these days,
not that I'm deserting the MaxFB community, that wont happen anytime soon
but things have slowed off a good bit for me with regard to MaxFB mods, there's only so many hours in a day [;)]
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by mbsports »

ORIGINAL: therhino

JD, how close are you guys to getting AFL and/or CFL style play like Maximum Football?

I think I can talk about this a little bit. I get pretty reasonable CFL and AFL results these days after spending a lot of time on my tune files to get them going. I sim my games for the most part and the biggest problems I get are
1. linebackers don't get enough tackles, the D Line gets way more
2. you never get INTs/Punts/Kicks returned for TDs

Aside from that I'm pretty happy with QB passing, rushing yards, sacks, kicking game, punting, and return yardage.

That being said not getting the last few notches in are a little tough to swallow b/c I think they could be in/should be in. The Tune files are a little too simplified for me because I'd like to set it up so that for rushing instead of having just a min/max you could have ranges. IE what % of a run is a 0-5, 5-10, 10-15, 15-20 and then you'd have a nice blend to where you could see some breakaway runs for 50-60 yards. As it is MaxFB just isn't going to give that to me, but hey I live on.
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mudrick
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by mudrick »

I've done a lot of complaining about the game, so i will now say why i keep playing it.

As people have already pointed out, game plans mean everything, especially defensive profiles.  It took me forever, but what I did was create a plan for the AI using specific offensive plays.  Then imported one of Hacks D's and profiles.  I then added plays and took plays away until I thought the game play and stats were pretty good.  Not in sim, but in actual play computer vs computer.  The results I've had are better than expected.

1. On occasion I see breakaway runs and deep pass plays.

2. Teams can and do effectively run 2 minute drills.

3. But what I like most is that teams can come back.  Also, teams that are 5-6 can on occasion beat a 9-2 team.  And it may be just my imagination, but it appears that teams get better or worse as the season progresses.  I know i'm not nuts, i'm seeing this.  I seen the Browns beat the Vikings 14-3 after losing to the Chiefs 41-3, then watch the Vikings beat the Chiefs.  This stuff is not constant, but it happens enough.  Enough that I wouldn't lay money on these games.

4. Or just the fact that a team can have a nice 12 play drive for a TD, the next possession a 70 yard run for a TD taking a 14-0 lead, then not scoring for the rest of the game and losing.  I find that very interesting.

But like I said, I do not sim, I let them play it out on the field.


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BigSmooth
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by BigSmooth »

No buyer's remorse from me. I've taken the Old Coach approach and have begun to rotate 4 different leagues on my computer. I am now immersed in a season with a 12 team, 3 division league that uses all of gary's low poly stadiums, hack's & dream's playbooks. I set the view to F7 and let the teams go computer to computer and I'm not seeing any 2 games alike.
 
I'm always hungry for more playbooks, stadiums, etc and I find that the contributions of the community here have satisfied the need so I don't know if a paid update in those areas will garner much support.
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DreamTeams
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by DreamTeams »

ORIGINAL: mudrick

4. Or just the fact that a team can have a nice 12 play drive for a TD, the next possession a 70 yard run for a TD taking a 14-0 lead, then not scoring for the rest of the game and losing.  I find that very interesting.

Seen it too. Love this about MaxF.
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by DAWUSS »

Well, MFB at least has to get me to the beginning of next season. Come July/August, I'll most likely start searching again - it all depends on what I'm looking for out of a football game. Things like graphics and presentation might receive a higher priority if I want to make football movies. Just as long as the other games don't start possessing unrealistic gameplay, or unrealistic stats (especially CPU-CPU).

One problem is the fact that with every new game means a whole new universe - I try to clone my notables, but even then they don't necessarily behave the same (not to mention that it can be tedious).
regenerator
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by regenerator »

Marauders -

Any final decision from this survey?  I think that an update of the default playbooks/profiles would be worth a cost.  I myself didn't realize just how significant an impact these they had on the realism of this game until I recently implemented an extensive set of tests on the game, in addition to researching many past and present issues brought up on the forum.  This leads me to believe that others may also have not yet come to realize the significant improvement to gameplay better playbooks can provide.  You can have the Constants variables and Player Ratings perfectly set, but it won't matter without very well designed playbooks and playbook profiles to complement them.  Obviously, as they stand now, the default books just have too many gaping flaws. 

Hack provides us with usable alternatives, but he seems to be just about the only one really working hard on this.  I love what Hack's doing.  Every release by him makes the game more playable.  The game could quickly improve by leaps and bounds if we have this new release from you, someone who has presumably intimate knowledge of the product, in addition to Hack's continuing developments.

Seeing as how you've stated new default playbooks were to be part of the (now never to be) new patch further cemented in my mind how valuable these would be.  I truly hope you will go forward with your plan to offer this.

Everyone else -
I know the response to this poll hasn't been overwhelming.  Since better playbooks are just about the only way we have left to improve the game, I implore everyone left out there in MaxFB land to realize the value that Marauders is offering and show some more support for this idea, if it is not too late. 

Despite the well-stated limitations of the game in its current state as brought up by several members, I have come to believe that nearly all can be worked around.  Marauders has offered many workarounds to the major existing issues.  This game still has the potential to become a solid, realistic football sim.   
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Mykal
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by Mykal »

[8|]
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garysorrell
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RE: Maximum Football 2.3 Update?

Post by garysorrell »

I agree with regenerator 100%, playbooks are key. They make this game playable.

But, I just dont think we need an update to get them straight. Hack already has 6 fantastic playbooks. The game should have shipped with playbooks like his. DTVT has a couple out there.

If anything, we should just try and organize some of the talent here on the boards and do it ourselves. If there was a 2.3 update, who is going to do it? Im assuming people from the boards. So, what are we waiting for.

Really, if 5 people had each taken a playbook and fixed/improved it, starting on the day this poll was posted, we would have 5 complete default playbooks......now.

I guess what im saying is that whatever would happen with an update, well, its all good. But 'waiting' has been the big problem with this game....we wait, and wait, and still wait. It's no big time sink for me to work on one of the defaults while I also work on my 8 man books.

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