Europe map?
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RE: Europe map?
We use a few house rules in our game (fewer now, though because in the 2008 Annual some of them became either official errata or optional rules ). Among them is a pay-as-you go oil rule that Pablo developed. He originally required countries to spend oil markers in integer quantities (i.e. an action could cost 0, 1 or 2 saved oil), and when Harry Rowland adapted it he changed to be tenths of a saved oil point that were spent (with variable quantities by major power and by action call).
I think if you want to make 1940 France easier but also prevent making a 1939 France easier, the way to do that would be to add 1 or 2 3-4 combat factor Polish units while restraining the Allied defence (such as with Pablo's "Ardennes" rule) in the West. With adequate forces and focus the Germans can smash through the extra Poles no sweat, but they can't just leave them be and turn westwards in 1939 or they might not be able to contain the Poles.
Alternatively, instead of adding new setup Polish units, add 1 or 2 decent (4-6 combat factor) reserve or 1939 units. That way Poland isn't more difficult unless things go really bad for Germany - but as long as by the end of S/O 1939 the Germans have surrounded Warsaw & Lodz, even if they haven't taken them, they should be able to prevail without too much trouble. However, once again the Germans will not want to sit around and let the Polish army buff up.
Or I could be totally out to lunch (having just eaten it, you never know).
I think if you want to make 1940 France easier but also prevent making a 1939 France easier, the way to do that would be to add 1 or 2 3-4 combat factor Polish units while restraining the Allied defence (such as with Pablo's "Ardennes" rule) in the West. With adequate forces and focus the Germans can smash through the extra Poles no sweat, but they can't just leave them be and turn westwards in 1939 or they might not be able to contain the Poles.
Alternatively, instead of adding new setup Polish units, add 1 or 2 decent (4-6 combat factor) reserve or 1939 units. That way Poland isn't more difficult unless things go really bad for Germany - but as long as by the end of S/O 1939 the Germans have surrounded Warsaw & Lodz, even if they haven't taken them, they should be able to prevail without too much trouble. However, once again the Germans will not want to sit around and let the Polish army buff up.
Or I could be totally out to lunch (having just eaten it, you never know).
~ Composer99
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RE: Europe map?
I think France<>Germany is nicely balanced as it is, but that might be because I've been playing with LoC Vichy rules for a couple years now; these have their own wrinkles to learn but it is a fun system to use. I can't see going back to the Paris am Götterdamerung battles ever again but will have to for MWiF version one I guess. I think LoC Vichy removes the problem of not enough clear weather in 1940 to take Paris by assault which occurs in some games. You can still get a Vichy government installed by achieving enough other objectives.
The O-Chits are nicely timed now and give the Germans choices to make and a back-up resort in case of bad luck. That's what I see happen...too much bad luck and the Germans resort to using a chit, but otherwise save them for other goals. Giving them a third one is a bad idea...but they can always build one on the first turn if they feel they need a third one.
As the game stands now, the only thing I would change would be to change the French ARM unit that arrives in M/A 40 to either a MECH corps or just an armor division to represent DeGaulle's contributions...it doesn't seem quite right to have that unit involved as a full ARM corps.
You just can't completely recreate the historical Sedan breakthrough without changing basic WiF mechanics, which work perfectly fine everywhere else on the map, including in France in 1944. A nice thing about the 1940 campaign in the West in WiF is that it is perfect for solitaire play to master the tactics needed to navigate the rules system and learn to defeat the French or make the Germans use up enough time to keep the Allies in the game.
I would support a small change to the minor country set-up rules, but only one: require half of each _type_ of units (air/naval/land) to be set up in the home country, rather than half of the sum total of the units. Requiring a unit in the capital goes too far I think, as does letting the attacker select an INF. This would keep the Dutch INF in Holland and the Belgian air force in Belgium and not change much else.
The O-Chits are nicely timed now and give the Germans choices to make and a back-up resort in case of bad luck. That's what I see happen...too much bad luck and the Germans resort to using a chit, but otherwise save them for other goals. Giving them a third one is a bad idea...but they can always build one on the first turn if they feel they need a third one.
As the game stands now, the only thing I would change would be to change the French ARM unit that arrives in M/A 40 to either a MECH corps or just an armor division to represent DeGaulle's contributions...it doesn't seem quite right to have that unit involved as a full ARM corps.
You just can't completely recreate the historical Sedan breakthrough without changing basic WiF mechanics, which work perfectly fine everywhere else on the map, including in France in 1944. A nice thing about the 1940 campaign in the West in WiF is that it is perfect for solitaire play to master the tactics needed to navigate the rules system and learn to defeat the French or make the Germans use up enough time to keep the Allies in the game.
I would support a small change to the minor country set-up rules, but only one: require half of each _type_ of units (air/naval/land) to be set up in the home country, rather than half of the sum total of the units. Requiring a unit in the capital goes too far I think, as does letting the attacker select an INF. This would keep the Dutch INF in Holland and the Belgian air force in Belgium and not change much else.
RE: Europe map?
Thinking of Luxembourg --
If... IF... it were to appear on the map where it should be...
Would it rate minor country status (one hex with a capital city), or just a territory with a city dot but no capital? Just a territory with no city at all? I've been trying to look up facts about the Grand Duchy in 1940. Not much out there.
Anthony DeChristopher
If... IF... it were to appear on the map where it should be...
Would it rate minor country status (one hex with a capital city), or just a territory with a city dot but no capital? Just a territory with no city at all? I've been trying to look up facts about the Grand Duchy in 1940. Not much out there.
Anthony DeChristopher
RE: Europe map?
My 1944 Collier Atlas says that Luxembourg had a pop of 297k inhabitant and its larget city was Luxembourg with 58k inhabitants.ORIGINAL: Gendarme
Thinking of Luxembourg --
If... IF... it were to appear on the map where it should be...
Would it rate minor country status (one hex with a capital city), or just a territory with a city dot but no capital? Just a territory with no city at all? I've been trying to look up facts about the Grand Duchy in 1940. Not much out there.
Anthony DeChristopher
My 1935 Collier Atlas says that Luxembourg had a pop of 305k inhabitant and its larget city was Luxembourg with 54k inhabitants.
So for WiF, no city, no Capital.
RE: Europe map?
We usually house rule that the NoZoc rule does not apply in '39. This is purely a balancing act to avoid a France '39 effect and I cannot come up with a good wifzen.ORIGINAL: Froonp
But, weakening the wallies side may not be a good idea either, because it could create an unwanted France 39 effect. The No ZoC rule has principaly this effect. This makes attacking in surprise so much successful, that it is very tempting to attack in the west in 39, combining the No ZoC rule to the weak 1939 wallies.
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RE: Europe map?
another idea would be to make ignoring ZoC's one of the powers of an O-Chit in a land action...say on an HQ-A only...exact limitations and specs would have to be worked out, I just thought of it.
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RE: Europe map?
As I just got back from there, I have to point out that the real Wicklow Mts are located just south of Dublin (would be in the same hex as the city). The mountain hexes in the West of Ireland don't seem to have a single name for them, I'm afraid.
I hope this hasn't been addressed before. Maps are beautiful of course!
I hope this hasn't been addressed before. Maps are beautiful of course!
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RE: Europe map?
Welcome to the forum.[:)]ORIGINAL: visitor_from_ireland
As I just got back from there, I have to point out that the real Wicklow Mts are located just south of Dublin (would be in the same hex as the city). The mountain hexes in the West of Ireland don't seem to have a single name for them, I'm afraid.
I hope this hasn't been addressed before. Maps are beautiful of course!
I read all the posts since I am very interested in hearing a wide variety of opinions and points of view about the game. Through the many contributions of others, MWIF continues to become a better product. [This may seem banal, but it is 100% factual.]
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
RE: Europe map?
Right.ORIGINAL: visitor_from_ireland
As I just got back from there, I have to point out that the real Wicklow Mts are located just south of Dublin (would be in the same hex as the city). The mountain hexes in the West of Ireland don't seem to have a single name for them, I'm afraid.
I hope this hasn't been addressed before. Maps are beautiful of course!
It looks like these mountains are called the Armorican Highlands (http://www.walkingsoftly.com/europemap.htm).
RE: Europe map?
Phew, when I saw this thread was active again I thought the border war issue had flared up again. Happy it is over Irish mountains
RE: Europe map?
As I was writingig in another post, French Units do not exert a ZOC into a neutral Belgium, as Belgium is not on the same side as France. It is only by German decleration of war that they get this, and thus it could be argued that they have no ZOC into Belgium in the surprise impulse.
This does by no means suggest that I wouls advocate a change in the map, even though it is horribly incorrect.
However, on the Norwegian map, Bergen is now out of supply, as it is 5 hexes from Oslo.
And another thing, I know you will say no[:)] but it would be really nice to have Sub-pens or Sub-bunkers around.
That is, a minor port with a sub-pen would make the subs immune to portstrikes.
The one in Bergen is still standing, exactly as it was built, since the guys in -45 reconed that there was not enough explosives in all of Norway to remove it...[X(]
This does by no means suggest that I wouls advocate a change in the map, even though it is horribly incorrect.
However, on the Norwegian map, Bergen is now out of supply, as it is 5 hexes from Oslo.
And another thing, I know you will say no[:)] but it would be really nice to have Sub-pens or Sub-bunkers around.
That is, a minor port with a sub-pen would make the subs immune to portstrikes.
The one in Bergen is still standing, exactly as it was built, since the guys in -45 reconed that there was not enough explosives in all of Norway to remove it...[X(]
Gott weiss ich will kein Engel sein.
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RE: Europe map?
My main problem with this is visual. If there are differences in minor ports, then I would want the players to be able to 'see' them. For example, ports that can become iced-in have a different symbol. So, yeah, you're right, this is not something for MWIF product 1.[:)]ORIGINAL: morgil
As I was writingig in another post, French Units do not exert a ZOC into a neutral Belgium, as Belgium is not on the same side as France. It is only by German decleration of war that they get this, and thus it could be argued that they have no ZOC into Belgium in the surprise impulse.
This does by no means suggest that I wouls advocate a change in the map, even though it is horribly incorrect.
However, on the Norwegian map, Bergen is now out of supply, as it is 5 hexes from Oslo.
And another thing, I know you will say no[:)] but it would be really nice to have Sub-pens or Sub-bunkers around.
That is, a minor port with a sub-pen would make the subs immune to portstrikes.
The one in Bergen is still standing, exactly as it was built, since the guys in -45 reconed that there was not enough explosives in all of Norway to remove it...[X(]
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
RE: Europe map?
I think sub pens have the same priority as things like the ability to build additional railroads or fixed air defenses: nice chrome but not essential to the initial release of MWiF. However, subsequent versions can implement such things without too much difficulty, I would think. To this could also be added rules on national morale, manpower, unit quality, etc.
This is an area where the computer version of the game can surpass the board version. Many things that I would like to see added to the board game increase the complexity / bookkeeping beyond the utility they add to the experience, and so are not really practical, as the game is big enough already. The computer version has the ability to speed up all the bookkeeping so you can focus on the strategic aspects of the game.
This is an area where the computer version of the game can surpass the board version. Many things that I would like to see added to the board game increase the complexity / bookkeeping beyond the utility they add to the experience, and so are not really practical, as the game is big enough already. The computer version has the ability to speed up all the bookkeeping so you can focus on the strategic aspects of the game.
Kosta Michalopoulos
RE: Europe map?
Every WiFFE major port already has the sub pens you are referring to. The ability to build pens into a minor port is a nice option for a future annual.
RE: Europe map?
Railroad building, manpower, are house rules part of the Annual 2008. Unit quality is taken care of already with white print units being elite and the rest being non elite.ORIGINAL: KosMic
I think sub pens have the same priority as things like the ability to build additional railroads or fixed air defenses: nice chrome but not essential to the initial release of MWiF. However, subsequent versions can implement such things without too much difficulty, I would think. To this could also be added rules on national morale, manpower, unit quality, etc.
RE: Europe map?
I have a friend who just went to Brest and saw the sub-pens there too. He said they were phenomenal and virtually indestructable even today.
Jason
Jason
ORIGINAL: morgil
As I was writingig in another post, French Units do not exert a ZOC into a neutral Belgium, as Belgium is not on the same side as France. It is only by German decleration of war that they get this, and thus it could be argued that they have no ZOC into Belgium in the surprise impulse.
This does by no means suggest that I wouls advocate a change in the map, even though it is horribly incorrect.
However, on the Norwegian map, Bergen is now out of supply, as it is 5 hexes from Oslo.
And another thing, I know you will say no[:)] but it would be really nice to have Sub-pens or Sub-bunkers around.
That is, a minor port with a sub-pen would make the subs immune to portstrikes.
The one in Bergen is still standing, exactly as it was built, since the guys in -45 reconed that there was not enough explosives in all of Norway to remove it...[X(]
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RE: Europe map?
There was some interest in a printed version of the MWIF maps. Status on that is still in limbo, but I was playing around with printing them out on my new printer yesterday. I am finding that not having a printed copy makes it difficult to do analysis for the AIO.
Anyway, I have a pretty nice printed version of Europe from Iceland to the Persian Gulf that takes 4 sheets of 8.5 by 11 inch paper (zoom level 4). Later this week I'll make that zoom level 6, which will require 9 sheets of paper (25" by 32"). This all requires trimming edges and taping, so it is not all that great.
More to the point, the hexes are still too small for playing the game using the WIF FE cardboard counters. So, I went up to the max zoom, 8, and then expanded the resultant file by 50% (~12.5" by 16"). That generated the screen shot you see here. Actually, I have trimmed away ~2/3 of the picture to make it fit the limits Matrix has on posted images. You can think of this map portion as being ~8" by ~8".
EDIT: I didn't state this explicitly, though it was implied: you can download the attachement and print it out yourself if you want to see what the maps will look like in printed form. Actually, I have them stored (and printed) as TIF files with 300 dpi resolution. The quality of the JPG might be somewhat inferior.
Anyway, I have a pretty nice printed version of Europe from Iceland to the Persian Gulf that takes 4 sheets of 8.5 by 11 inch paper (zoom level 4). Later this week I'll make that zoom level 6, which will require 9 sheets of paper (25" by 32"). This all requires trimming edges and taping, so it is not all that great.
More to the point, the hexes are still too small for playing the game using the WIF FE cardboard counters. So, I went up to the max zoom, 8, and then expanded the resultant file by 50% (~12.5" by 16"). That generated the screen shot you see here. Actually, I have trimmed away ~2/3 of the picture to make it fit the limits Matrix has on posted images. You can think of this map portion as being ~8" by ~8".
EDIT: I didn't state this explicitly, though it was implied: you can download the attachement and print it out yourself if you want to see what the maps will look like in printed form. Actually, I have them stored (and printed) as TIF files with 300 dpi resolution. The quality of the JPG might be somewhat inferior.
- Attachments
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- Printable..02009a.jpg (995.87 KiB) Viewed 197 times
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
RE: Europe map?
I see Lenigrad is a clear hex. This is a change. What was the thinking here?
regards John
regards John
RE: Europe map?
The extra names etc are great for interest. Particularly the first time. A lot of work has been done here.
However for those of us who like an uncluttered map will it be possible to vary the amout of non game related information to a minimum.
Regards John
However for those of us who like an uncluttered map will it be possible to vary the amout of non game related information to a minimum.
Regards John
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RE: Europe map?
I know not whereof you speak. Leningrad is still swamp (though in winter it is treated as if it were forest).ORIGINAL: BallyJ
I see Lenigrad is a clear hex. This is a change. What was the thinking here?
regards John
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The small font names (e.g., resource type, Dunkirk) are only visible at high zoom levels (7 & 8 as I recall). You can also toggle all the labels off/on whenever you like.
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.