CLGA volume 2

Frank Hunter's Campaigns on the Danube is an operational study of the campaigns along the Danube in 1805 and 1809. Campaigns on the Danube's system focuses on trying to present the player with the same sort of decisions placed on their historical counterparts; how to feed an army and move that army according to a plan, all the while trying to fight a campaign. There is also an option to allow players to play out the battles with miniatures and input the results.
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gazfun
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by gazfun »

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Hi, I doubt testing will be a problem this time around.  I'm certainly not in any rush to release it.

Miniatures, can't promise that module will be in version 2.  I can definitely say it won't be in in its present form.  It has to be made better or dumped.  It was in the first game more as an unsupported add-on.  Sort of a "if this works, its a bonus".  If I include it again it has to work better.

There are changes from version 1.  The big one being the battle system.  I'll detail that later but suffice to say that area has been completely redone.
Thats one of the reasons I bought this, was for minitures battles, please try and include this in the next release, and there are a lot more people than you think who buy it for the same reasons let me assure you
paulferris1964
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by paulferris1964 »


Another vote for the miniatures function - in whatever form you can include it, Frank. This is the MAIN reason I would buy CLGA Vol. 2....
FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

Thanks for all those comments guys.  I'll certainly give the mini system my best shot.  The biggest hurdle is that combat now takes place throughout the day (one round) instead of a multi-round battle at the end.




mpa541
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by mpa541 »

Hi Frank,

can you explain a bit more why this is a problem.

would a potential solution be that a list of battles to be fought could be generated and then the user could select which are miniatures and which are system resolved?

Do the results of an early battles (ie morning) have impacts on later(ie Afternoon) movements/battles?

just keen to understand.

thanks

Mike
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

The old combat system was called only at the end of the day so it wasn't a huge issue to allow the player to resolve those battles off-line.

Now however,  the battle system is integrated into the hour by hour sequence of play.  A battle can run throughout the day.  Let's say on Day 5 around 3:00pm a French force contacts a Coalition force.  The initial round proceeds without a human decision, the units involved act based on their contact order.  Let's say the French in this case have a large cavalry advantage and they're on an offensive order so they try to overrun the enemy force.  If the enemy force is too strong the overrun fails and both sides remain in the hex until the next combat phase.  By then let's say more forces have entered the hex.  Sides with offensive orders will check to see if they have a manpower advantage that will allow them to force the enemy from the hex.  If they don't both sides will begin to deploy for battle. 

As it takes two rounds to fully deploy the battle won't begin till the morning of Day 6.  At 6am is the first battle phase.  Unlike the old system you no longer select a battle strategy.  Instead you decide which units to commit, and if attacking, the intensity.  The next combat round is at 9am.  The player at this time gets the results of the 6am round and can commit more units and see if any units have broken or are becoming too tired to continue.

So as you can see, I could still allow the player to resolve a battle offline but it would now be only a round before results would have to be entered back into the game.  Hard to let the player resolve the entire battle offline without the game running as the game wouldn't know yet if any reinforcements entered the battle etc.

I'll have to give this some thought.  Any ideas?
mpa541
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by mpa541 »

Ok,

I'll have a try....

Step 1. as describes where the computer actually decides if there is a battle...no human input..keep it that way...no micro management!

Step 2. Forces deploy for battle (2 phases as described). At this stage you could ask for off table. If off table then the computer needs to decide which forces are currently avliable and which forces might arrive (based on order etc.) I would think that your existing procedure for determining who might arrive could be used.

Step 3. Players collect a force list and play the battle. This would include a schedule for reserves etc, including condition...if Ney's Corps was on aggressive orders then I could imagine they might arrive via forced march and be not in much condition to fight! Again I like the option of the computer determining the schedule of this...In the games of COTD we played in our group I often kept the reinforcement schedule secret from the players (at least very vague)

Step 4. Players enter battle details. (finishing time units and fatigue etc.)

Step 5. computer then continues to process the day taking into account the details entered by the player.

Might it be possible for the computer to do a "run through" for the day to determine the potential battles which exist and then allow the players to select the battles which will be done off game. From a personal stand point I don't want to fight every single engagement from the campaign...just the more interesting ones, so its unlikely that I would pick every single battle for off game.

I don't think it is a problem for the game to "suspend" while the battle is resolved...players are picking miniatures....they want to play with the toys, so will expect things to stop while they have their game...if they want things to move along then they will not select miniatures!

Not sure of the implications of the timing. ie. if there are 2 battles running in hexes that are relatively close then I can see a problem...simulation of Auerstedt/Jena. But maybe battle that are that close should be run off game entirely...ie if the players select that battle for off game...then the surrounding hex battles are included.

Anyway, there are a few thoughts. I'm really keen to help out, so let us know how to help.

regards,

Mike
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arichbourg
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by arichbourg »

Quick question for Frank. I stopped playing COTD mainly because attacking from 2 sides (such as front and rear) had (iirc) no effect on combat. Will this ever be "fixed" in this game and does it feature in CLGA vol 2?
FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

Just to let anyone know that is following this game, I've been working on it whenever not busy with Guns of August.  Hopefully I will get testing going early in the new year.

Some good ideas there mpa541, I'll be coming back to the off-system resoltuion later.

arichbourg, I'm actually still working on the combat system but unlike the original game the battle does keep track of what direction units entered the battle hex.  So in answer to the question "will this be fixed" I can say probably.


Just as an aside, for the graphics would you guys prefer a game map like the Danube game or a map that looks more like a regular map?



Arthur Wellesley
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by Arthur Wellesley »

Hi,
 
any news???
 
I would prefer a regular map or something like the map from AGEods Napoleon's Campaigns.
Alan Sharif
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by Alan Sharif »

Excellent news. I am really looking forward to this title. Frank I understand you once produced a game on the US Civil War. Can you, or anyone else here, tell me the title and if anyone knows, where I might find a copy. GoA was so good I am buying your previous titles like CLGA (which I enjoyed also) and I hope, your US Civil War Game.
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Skeleton
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by Skeleton »

Frank,

Please make your map not only hexes but maybe a fleshed out version of the GoA game, where terrain plays a key role. I also think the manner in which combat is handled and resolved in GoA is excellent and would make CLGA 2 a must buy. CLGA, though a very good game, "looks" naked. That is to say, the map just appears barren to me.
*Formerly known as Marcus the Leper, time has taken a toll and now I am simply a skeleton...*
jim pfleck
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by jim pfleck »

I am very excited about the possibility of another game in the series ( I have the 1805/1809 game).  looking forward to seeing it!
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Adraeth
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by Adraeth »

I love the concept of the 1st game (i bought it just some days ago) so i am waiting for the 2nd title.

Regarding suggestions, it would be really nice to use the orders' system even in pithced battle when the Army HQ (so the player) is involved:

so giving orders to corps or divisions how to perform or deploy and then just watching the outcome of the battle with a sort of "replay" or a wego action with turns covering an hour of battle. A simple way to get the thrilling of misgiven orders or incompetent corps commanders or exceptional corps commander (for example in Aurestadt ^ ^).

www.histwar.fr/
---
Periods i like: age of muskets, napoleonics, modern combat.
FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

Alan, my Civil War game is 13 years old and really needs to be redone. Its on my agenda and I have a long list of changes to be made, the biggie being the scale is closer to CLGA than to the original (5 miles per hex).


Marcus, a Goa-ish combat system for CLGA? Not sure what you mean.


So far everything system-wise is done except the AI needs more work and I have only three campaigns working.
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*Lava*
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by *Lava* »

Hi Frank...

What intriguing posts... some comments:
ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

So as you can see, I could still allow the player to resolve a battle offline but it would now be only a round before results would have to be entered back into the game. Hard to let the player resolve the entire battle offline without the game running as the game wouldn't know yet if any reinforcements entered the battle etc.

I'll have to give this some thought. Any ideas?

Actually... this is exactly what a miniatures player would want when playing a campaign. Having the "initial contact" followed by reinforcements entering onto the battlefield would be a absolutely super way to fight it on the table top.

Not sure how to do it... but I think mini's folks would go wild if you could somehow accommodate them.

Seeing as how this is a Army type game, have you considered contacting any of the folks who have made similar scale miniatures rules?

Sam mustafa comes immediately to mind for me, as I am now working on a Napoleonic minis project and plan to use his Grande Armée rules. He has also published a "free" set of Fast Play Grande Armée rules that are available HERE. And I believe he can be contacted HERE.

Sure would be nice if the two of you could get together and maybe he could publish a companion set of miniatures rules especially for CLGA-2. That's a "win-win" situation for everybody involved.
ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Just as an aside, for the graphics would you guys prefer a game map like the Danube game or a map that looks more like a regular map?

To be quite honest I really liked the map style from AEGOD's ACW. I think a "period" type map would really help in the immersion side of the game, especially with the artistic frames they used in those days. Here's a couple maps which, though not the greatest examples, kinda illustrate what I mean:

Map 1

Map 2

I found AEGOD's maps easy on the eyes and the units stand out more prominently.

BTW... do you have any idea when the game might possibly be announced and a new forum made?

Anyway... wish you all the best on your new game and will keep my eye out as things develop.

A devoted fan...

Ray (alias Lava)
FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

Ray,

What I ended up doing for battles was the following : Units come into contact with each other, if heavily outnumbered one side will fall back. If both sides remain a "skirmish" action will be fought immediately. This can happen more than once per day in a hex.

If both sides decide to remain then those major battles are resolved at the end of the day using the new battle system (similar to the old one but you don't pick plans, you instead decide when to commit divisions over a series of battle rounds).

Using this method you won't see 50,000 troops in a major battle against 10,000 troops and that sort of thing.

Plus it means I can still support off-computer resolution of battles.

As for Sam's Grande Armee, I have read through the Fast Play version, very interesting rules.

I tried to upload some samples of the map look I would like myself but apparently even 200k gets rejected as being too big.

As for a new forum, I don't think that's necessary until I'm ready to start testing.



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*Lava*
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by *Lava* »

Hi Frank,

Sounds kewl,

Why don't you just take a screen shot of the map and post it is a .jpg. Should be small enough to load up. Don't need to see the whole thing to get the general jist of things.

Ray (alias Lava)
FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

Okay, see if this works. This is not a screenshot, its just a sample pic.

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FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

And a second sample pic

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FrankHunter
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RE: CLGA volume 2

Post by FrankHunter »

One thing that would be quite different is that on a real map things like rivers would conform to the hex grid.

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