Viewing victory conditions

[Andynator]

Hi,

Harpoon player since the Three-Sixty days and H2 after that. I am really enjoying re-playing the H2 stuff updated as H3, I just purchased it this week and had forgotten how much fun it was. I still have the first IO battleset on the big 5 1/2" floppies (yes, the big ones).

I have a question about game time and victory conditions:

In the original sim, you could set the timer display to either "game time" OR "time remaining" in the scenario. Pretty sure this was also possible in H2 (as I recall, it was pretty much mandatory for the "Phone Tap" scenario).

Likewise, original sim would display "Game Status" listing units damaged, destroyed etc.

Is there any way to determine the victory conditions while just running the sim? That is, "sink 5 enemy submarines" or "Station your submarines safely in Zone 23 for 24 hours", or ???

I understand if maybe "minimum" and "full" victory conditions are no longer the case, but it seems the only thing I see is "You have failed to meet the victory conditions..."

I need a Goal: either time, or destroyed units, or protected units...give me something, please!

Thanks and regards,
Andy

[TonyE]

Many scenario authors will list the victory conditions in the orders for the scenario.  Some think that is unrealistic and they only list more vague goals.  But the game comes with the scenario editor and that is the only place you can look directly at the victory conditions.  So I'd say the answer to your question is that you cannot see the VCs in the game but you can always pull up the scenario in the editor and look at the victory conditions.
 
 

[BurntFingers]

Easy work around, without using scenario editor, works on ANW;-

1) Save your current game.

2) Resign. This brings up the list of VC (some will be failed of course). You can also check losses and ammo expenditures.

3) Choose "End Scenario", then "Load Battleset" and make sure "Default Windows" is unchecked to resume all the custom display settings (saves resizing all the different display windows). Reload your game and carry on.

Some people might regard this as cheating though - I kind of like the cryptic approach, although sometimes Orders are TOO cryptic!

[Shemar]

What I have realized in the few months I have been playing Harpoon, is that a well designed scenario is paramount to an enjoyable experience. Like with many other aspects of the game, it is up to the scenario designer to give you the proper amount of information you need to know (including ViConds, scenario end time etc) in the orders which are readily accessible in game at any time.
 
Ideally, instead of giving an exact list of ViConds, the orders should be worded in such a way as following them and completing the stated objectives results by default in completing the ViConds. At least that is my personal preference. I would personally consider any scenario that you cannot win in the first try without peeking at the exact ViConds or the actual scenario design a badly designed scenario.

[BurntFingers]

Ideally, Orders would detail this. But I can think of one exception.
 
If you're playing a side that's about to undergo a surprise attack, Orders are often vague.
 
I wasn't even sure whether I should bomb Libya or not playing TattleTale for the first time.

[Andynator]

Yeah, see those are the sorts of things I am talking about. Usually I end up sending a chopper or some expendible over, and if he gets shot down...the gloves come off.

I usually do pretty well on the "steathy" missions - reach my patrol zones, but then hang around for a day or two with nothing happening - resign and instantly lose.

I guess I will dink around with the editor and see if there's an easy way to figure it out. I was hoping there was a quick reference guide, somewhere.

Cheers!
Andy

[Shemar]

It really depends on your playing style.
 
I avoid using the editor on a scenario like the plague, if it is the first time I am playing it. There is nothing better than not knowing what is going to happen and in a well designed scenario the victory conditions and time frames that you should know of (which means you may be intentionally given false or incomplete information) to make the scenario work as intended, should be in the description.
 
And when you play a scenario for the 2nd, 3rd etc time, you already know the exact victory conditions as they are presented analytically in the evalation report.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Andynator]

Thanks everyone.

I guess I am "goal oriented" in that I like in the older version I can check the sim time remaining and also "score" of destroyed units.

Andy