Rear area designation questions

[PeterLorre86]

I was wondering about this, and would appreciate clarification.

First question:
AT and infantry guns are considered rear area units, therefor when they are coupled with infantry and other front line troops they will have an increases survivability if i understand this correctly. So my question is this, if i have an anti-tank brigade (10 at guns 5 trucks) with no infantry but in the same hex as an infantry division (say 40 inf, 10 mg, etc..) will the AT guns get the rear area protection from infantry not in the same formation but in the same hex? On the battle screen, it shows the two formations in separate columns so i wonder if this is the case. I have been trying a new strategy of having my AT guns separate from infantry and mobile, so that i can mass them where they are most needed and save production cost on having AT guns in all inf. units. If i don't get the rear area bonus though, this strategy obviously wont work.

Second:
Also, since artillery is rear area i was wondering if anyone has experimented with keeping them in their formations themselves, rather then behind. I would think they are too expensive to risk, but i would imagine it would give quite a boost to the unit's firepower. Also, in stalemate, your units would be able to attack with the artillery to reduce the organization, strength, and moral of the units they face, keeping the enemy on the defensive. Saves on the few PP for the extra artillery groups, but if you use the barrage your unit is no longer available to attack or move. Your thoughts?

[DasTactic]

1. My understand is that the hex fights as a whole, so initially the AT would get the bonus. However, as the battle wears on and formations take losses, they lose effectiveness etc. These, I think, are calculated per formation. Lets say that all your formations will retreat at 50% (the default). As the battle goes on the formations around your AT will suffer loses and thus provide less protection. By having a number of cheap units with your AT formation it will allow them to retreat when the appropriate time comes rather than suffering losses.

2. I don't risk them in the front line. And if the enemy breaks through and can attack my artillery (which has infantry with it) I have the retreat for these units set to 5%.

[seille]

I don´t think that the infantry from a second formation in the same hex will protect the AT guns.
The only help would be that the enemy fire would be spreaded between all formations.
BUT i´m not 100% sure and i would like to hear Vic´s answer here since i asked myself that question already.
 
I would never risk my artillery in the frontline. One good prepared enemy attack and you´ll lose them completely.
No hex is that good defended [;)] and artillery is very bad in defense even with some supporting infantry.
I keep the artillery in artillery units with some infantry support behind the frontline.

[Xenomath]

ORIGINAL: PeterLorre86
...
So my question is this, if i have an anti-tank brigade (10 at guns 5 trucks) with no infantry but in the same hex as an infantry division (say 40 inf, 10 mg, etc..) will the AT guns get the rear area protection from infantry not in the same formation but in the same hex? ...

I do things like that all the time, so I'm quite sure they defend each other.
That being said I would not advice to stack as much as 10 AT guns at one hex.

but if you use the barrage your unit is no longer available to attack or move. Your thoughts?

For the stated reason I would always keep artillery in it's own unit.

[Vic]

Indeed Xeno,
 
All troops fight together and an infantry units thus protects an arti only unit, however each unit adheres to its own retreat% and has its own chance on panicking.
 

[seille]

So the attacker has to break thru the lines of the infantry unit to hit the artillery unit in same hex ?

[PeterLorre86]

Thanks for the clarification Vic, and everyone else. I can now try this independent AT tactic with confidence. It sounds like adjusting the casualty tolerance of the units is necessary for this situation. Infantry at 50% while the AT asset would be either 5 or 25%. I'll have to see what works best, 5% might have the AT leaving to early, leaving the infantry exposed. 25% might cause them to stay after the support is retreating. The more i think about it the more problems i find with this tactic... Maybe integrated AT is the best way to go after all.

Xenomath- Why do u not suggest putting 10 AT guns in one hex? Risk of air attack? Or is it that it's just not cost effective?

Seille- If i understand correctly, i think there is always a slight chance of rear area units dieing even with infantry protection. This probably increases when the attacker is using mortars, guns, or tanks.

[seille]

@Peter
As far as i know the attacker has to break your lines to hit the rear area units.
You´ll see when that happens. The attacker icons that broke your lines turn into yellow color.

[PeterLorre86]

Oh, ok. That does make sense. I need to pay closer attention to that battle screen.