Looking for strategy games without chores

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Jonathan Palfrey
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Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

I started playing wargames in the 1960s, when they were relatively short and simple. Since then, games have got long and complicated, alas. Most modern games require players to spend their time on tedious chores that a real-life commander-in-chief would sensibly delegate to subordinates.

Are there any games these days designed for players who have jobs and families; who want a game that can be played to completion in a short period of time (say, half an hour to two hours?); who want to spend their playing time thinking about grand strategy and not fussing around with minor details?

I have an interest in the American Civil War, so I bought Forge of Freedom when it came out. This game has the praiseworthy aim of offering different levels of complexity: a Basic game, an Intermediate game, and an Advanced game. You can even turn individual rules modules on and off.

However, the implementation of this idea is shaky. Take supply, for example. In Forge of Freedom, you can turn the supply rules on or off. If you turn them on, you're deeply involved in supply management chores. If you turn them off, units can rampage all over the map without needing supply lines.

The sensible chore-free way of handling supply is that units should be able to trace supply lines or suffer penalties; this doesn't involve the player in any work because it's all handled automatically by the game. Unfortunately Forge of Freedom doesn't provide this option.

The end result is that the Forge of Freedom Basic game still involves too much work for my liking, while failing to simulate the war adequately.

I think what I need is not a cut-down version of a more complex game, but a game fully focused on providing an adequate simulation with a minimum of chores. Amazingly, the games industry doesn't seem to provide such games. Or have I missed something?

There are probably some board wargames that would suit me, but I can't play them for lack of human opponents.
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sterckxe
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey
I think what I need is not a cut-down version of a more complex game, but a game fully focused on providing an adequate simulation with a minimum of chores. Amazingly, the games industry doesn't seem to provide such games. Or have I missed something?

If you're into WWII operational level combat you could take a look at Conquest of the Aegean. It's pure operational combat, about the most realistic on the market with an extremely competent AI, without burderning the player with chores like moving little supply truck to the front and back.

You wear the hat of the corps commander, give your orders and start the clock. Pause at will to adjust your orders or give new ones. No more moving hundreds of units each, just give orders to your AI battalion commanders and let them sort-out the details of which company/platoon should be in the van and when to request supply.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey
Are there any games these days designed for players who have jobs and families; who want a game that can be played to completion in a short period of time (say, half an hour to two hours?); who want to spend their playing time thinking about grand strategy and not fussing around with minor details?

Grand strategy and 1-2 hour play times generally don't mix. I can't recall a grand strategy game that I could really play so quickly. With that said, there are plenty of games with less "chores" so that you can get in your 1-2 hour sitting and feel like you've made a lot more progress.

Of our recent releases in grand strategy, probably the easiest to play is Commander: Europe at War. Below the grand strategy level, I would recommend Hornet Leader PC and Carriers at War as intuitive games that can give you satisfaction in very short time frames.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
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JudgeDredd
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by JudgeDredd »

And it's reduced in price this side of 2008!
Alba gu' brath
Jonathan Palfrey
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

Thanks for the constructive suggestion, Eddy! I normally prefer turn-based pre-20th century games, so it's not what I had in mind, but Conquest of the Aegean sounds like an interesting attempt to combine authentic simulation with automation of details.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Grand strategy and 1-2 hour play times generally don't mix. I can't recall a grand strategy game that I could really play so quickly.

That's my problem! Such games don't seem to exist. There's no reason why they shouldn't, except that for some reason game designers apparently don't want to make them.

In fact, there is a computer game of the whole American Civil War that can be played in less than half an hour; it was written by W.R. Hutsell in the 1990s and is still available (see http://www.dhq.nu/hutsell/vga.htm). It's rather too simple even for me, but I did play it repeatedly some years ago. If Hutsell could do it, I wish others would make the attempt, and do it better...
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Of our recent releases in grand strategy, probably the easiest to play is Commander: Europe at War. Below the grand strategy level, I would recommend Hornet Leader PC and Carriers at War as intuitive games that can give you satisfaction in very short time frames.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll look at them.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Hidde »

It's not grand strategy but my favorite games when it comes to "easy to get started, quick to play but hard to master" would be the two Tin Soldier games.
Another game in that vein is Napoleon in Italy but it's more time consuming if you play the tactical battles, which I would recommend (to play the tactical battles, that is).
Birth of America is another focused and streamlined game. And fun.
Another one that I haven't seen recommended much anywhere is the first Takeda by Magitech. I think it was fun but the few reviews that I've seen didn't like it very much.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

Napoleon in Italy is an interesting suggestion, as I once spent three years living in Piedmont. At least the map would be familiar!

Birth of America uses, I think, the same engine as AGEOD's ACW game, which I bought but still haven't played. AACW seems well designed and popular, but the complexity level is enough to intimidate me, and there's no simplified version: you play the full game, take it or leave it.
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ravinhood
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ravinhood »

Combat Mission series will give you those 1 to 2 hour battles. Just use the quick battles setup. Take about 1000pts or less of buy points and play on a small map. Quick fast and furious and over before supper. Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas and Bull Run Open battles can be played in an hour or two as well.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


Jonathan Palfrey
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Jonathan Palfrey »

Thanks, ravinhood. I specialize in strategy rather than tactics, but I have played battle games occasionally in the past.
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Hertston
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

Birth of America uses, I think, the same engine as AGEOD's ACW game, which I bought but still haven't played.

Yes, and no. It's more the other way around, but the game mechanics of ACW are rather more complex to suit that conflict and, more importantly, the scenarios take much, much longer to play. You should be fine with the shorter BoA scenarios at least, which only take an hour or two. Recommended, a superb game.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by leastonh1 »

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Combat Mission series will give you those 1 to 2 hour battles. Just use the quick battles setup. Take about 1000pts or less of buy points and play on a small map. Quick fast and furious and over before supper. Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas and Bull Run Open battles can be played in an hour or two as well.

Hmmm, what was it you were saying very recently in another thread about someone who happened to mention another games company beginning with P?! Tut tut Ravinhood. It seems you are being a bit of a hypocrite here. No consistency. That's not good for a potential moderator candidate, is it? [:-] [:'(]
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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freeboy
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by freeboy »

if you want civial war the blue and grey.. ageods game is a winner for ease and simplicity, I own it and forge, both excellent games..
Europe cammander, or whatever .. mayber commander in europe? is a reletively simple strategy game as well
"Tanks forward"
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ravinhood
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ravinhood »

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Combat Mission series will give you those 1 to 2 hour battles. Just use the quick battles setup. Take about 1000pts or less of buy points and play on a small map. Quick fast and furious and over before supper. Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas and Bull Run Open battles can be played in an hour or two as well.

Hmmm, what was it you were saying very recently in another thread about someone who happened to mention another games company beginning with P?! Tut tut Ravinhood. It seems you are being a bit of a hypocrite here. No consistency. That's not good for a potential moderator candidate, is it? [:-] [:'(]

Go back and READ the other thread TOPIC Jim_H it was asking about MATRIXGAMES game. This one is not. Therefore it is a more open thread and I win you lose. ;) (as always)

Plus, all these other yo-yo's broke the thread mentioning BOA and ACW those are NOT Matrixgames games either. Matrixgames is just suking a little blood out of them "distributing" them from their site. You can bet they ain't doin it for free. (Are you Erik? <gasp>)

Oh an btw Jim_H yah know what they call/label people like you doin what you're doin? :)

Jim_H = Trolling:
Provoking arguments that tend to have little to do with the actual topic, may be very personal in nature, generally being annoying towards others with the intention of getting them to (over-)react. Picking a fight, so to speak

Now let's list some of Jim_H's trolling moments:

1.On the strength of Eddy's post here, I vote Ravinhood for mod lol! Just until he's banned of course!

Jim

2. ROFL! Except himself?! (directed at me)

3.People do complain bitterly about Windows and are up in arms, but they still use Windows instead of going elsewhere. They are taken in by the hype and marketing to really think there are no alternatives to Windows. The fact is, they are wrong. (here he is saying his opinion is right an everyone else is wrong. Clearly provoking a reaction and response to believe as he does or suffer the consequences) ;)

4. See? Moaning about a game, moaning about the price, being irritating, harping on about a game you don't have yet that you'll no doubt complain about when it's released because it's $1 more than you want to pay. Then you'll proclaim in countless threads about how you're gonna wait until next year's Xmas sale (which I can guarantee it won't be on) because it's too expensive upon release, but that doesn't matter because it's crap anyway like all Matrix games (once again OT and directed at ME. ) :)

5. Judge:
You are like a double act sometimes.

Mrs Hood posts (attack on my gender) something upsetting to someone (inevitable really),(makes up things) you reply with a putdown (and what is it you do Jim_H?) and the rest of us sit watching, popcorn and beer at the ready. Well, I do anyway.

6. AFAIC Mr (Mrs?) Hood deserves all the flak posted in these forums! You're deliberately obnoxious, arrogant and do your utmost to bait people, (and what is it you do Jim_H? )

7. If there was an award for the most Politically Correct Troll I've ever encountered, it would be yours (more direct attacks at ME). ;)

Perhaps you should look in your own mirror Mr. Jim_H you have quite the baggage of a troll following you. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Terminus
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by Terminus »

You often wave at yourself in the mirror?[8|]
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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leastonh1
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by leastonh1 »

Ravinhood
I'm not trolling at all. I'm just pointing out that you contradicted yourself. I seem to remember your primary objection was in the first line of your post. Something about "stop promoting p....... games on the matrix games site" or words to that effect. How is that trolling? [:'(]

Jonathan
I'm not a big fan of ACW, so can't comment on any of the games. However...
Flashpoint Germany is great for a quick blast. Some of the scenarios can be done in a couple of hours. The learning curve isn't particularly steep and it's a blast to play.
Advanced Tactics has some nice, short scenarios and can produce 1-2hr random maps if you're pushed for time. The supply situation is well executed and doesn't really need much more than monitoring. Certainly not micromanaging anyway.

Hope that helps and sorry for the hijack.

Regards,
Jim
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


Grand strategy and 1-2 hour play times generally don't mix. I can't recall a grand strategy game that I could really play so quickly.

Regards,

- Erik


Erik,

I'm surprised at you. You have the perfect example of what he is looking for in your product line. Gary Grigsby's World at War is exactly what he is after. You can play at least half the war in a couple of hours. I, personally, haven't played it much since my initial look into it for the very same reasons it would appeal to him. For me, it is too simple and the war goes by too fast. I started playing UV again last weekend and am leaning haevily toward picking up WiP soon to satisify my need for an ultradetailed ultragrog grand strategic game, but for someone looking for a streamlined, fast paced grand startegic game WaW fits the bill completely.
Hans

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leastonh1
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by leastonh1 »

Ravinhood. Have you nothing better to do? Ok, so I enjoy winding you up, I admit it. Guilty as charged. Do you feel better now?&nbsp;[8|]
2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.
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ravinhood
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by ravinhood »

Lol just proving another point Jim_H....just proving another point. The ole 3 fingers vs 1 pointing directions philosophy. [:D]&nbsp;Don't worry, if I did one on Terminus or Judge Dredd they would take up two pages probably. hahahah You're just a beginner vs me. [:'(]
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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TheHellPatrol
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RE: Looking for strategy games without chores

Post by TheHellPatrol »

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Ravinhood. Have you nothing better to do?
Not until the elementary school up his street lets out at 3PM[:-][X(][:'(][:D]
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

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