New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

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dazoline II
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New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

With thanks to redmarkus4 to get me to finalize this senario. Red just put up his own Russia senario and by doing so got me to put mine up. nice OB work Red.
I've put a new mod up at the AT website, Russia 41 - Extended.

Its an extension of Tom Weber's senario that includes a number of tweaks n stuff. It's a learning experience for me and one I hope to expand on in the future.
Hope you like it!


Changes to original Russia senario:

- Added Finnish and Romanians as seperate regimes with the Germans making an appearance under the Romanian regime. The Finnish enter the war when the Germans capture Riga. The Romanians enter the war on the second turn.

- Added to the OB for all sides. Russia gets more starting units, Germany gets more sub formations, initally attached to HQ's and some formations with low readiness/smaller size.
- Added some sub formations. I haven't gotten to the level of Panzer Mk. IVB but it rounds the game out a bit.
- Removed the VP requirement for a win, you win by decimating the other side.
- Removed some play options.
- Removed the event driven prodcution system and went back to the games defaut system.
- Reduced the experience and readiness of the Soviet OB.
- Changed the inital output of factories.
- Germany gets Fighter II to simulate the blitzkrieg in the air and to bring some balance to later turns.
- Naval movement increased.
- Germany has access to assault guns and halftracks on the first turn.
- Changed the inital modelling of shock to the Russian army production.
- Used a new masterfile, read its Scn. Desc. for its changes.

Master File Changes:
- Renamed a number of sub formations.
- Created Armored Cars sub formations II, III, IV
- Created Assault Gun sub formations I, II , III IV
- Created an Air Reocn sub formation
- Created a tracked artillery sub formation.
- Created a tracked aa sub formation.

AI changes:
- #64 Max free xp / turn = 5 // was 10
- #245 AI blows bridges without enginners changed to no.
- #250 AI 33% autorepair to no
- #253 AI free land transfer set to no



Notes:
- I'm still looking at how to reproduce the German blitzkrieg to the Dinper in 4 days, will probably have to do a new map, tweak the turn structure or movement.

- Need some improvement in graphics, especially Romainians/Finnish HQ & Symbols.
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tweber
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by tweber »

I took a quick look. I like the new units and the names on the OOB. I also like that the map is not too crowded. Couple of thoughts to consider:

- Making the Romanians a separate regime will cause hassles for the German supply system. You cannot run supply through another regime so you will find situations where 1 regime 'blocks' the other. A different approach might be having more types of people. The axis side could have Fins, Germans, and Balkan people. You can give different people different combat capabilities and coloring (see the N.Africa scenario).

- I think your changes hinder the AI. Especially, if you are playing Germany. It is critical for the Soviets to blow those bridges.

- I think your combat penalty is pretty harsh on the Soviets. I am not sure they can recover.

I was thinking about giving the Germans a massive blitz capability in the first turn. Afterall, the Battle of Smolensk started on July 12th, just 20 days into the war. You can do this with a event (checked on a turn)

Check roung = 1
Check turn = 0
execmovemod (repeat for the ground move types)
end.ch
Check turn = 1
execmovemod (again repeat - hear you are resetting)
end.ch
end.ch

Here is a map of the early progress of the war. I would be tricky to put in mechanisms that allow the Germans to make such progress and then be stopped later on.

seille
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by seille »

ORIGINAL: dazoline II
AI changes:
- #64 Max free xp / turn = 5 // was 10
- #245 AI blows bridges without enginners changed to no.
- #250 AI 33% autorepair to no
- #253 AI free land transfer set to no

Want to make this a human only scenario ?
I ask because with these changes the AI will be no match even for beginner.
They can´t destroy bridges when moving back and they can´t repair their bombed cities (with engineers which has been simulated by #250)
The outcome of the "free land transfer:no" i really don´t want to see ingame....
Probably lots of 999 strength HQ´s full of troops and not able to deliver to the frontline.

Did you already test these settings ? I bet not at least against the AI.
I hope you´ll do intensive tests here before you release it.
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Redmarkus5
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by Redmarkus5 »

I'm pretty positive I saw the AI blow some bridges? Maybe I imagined it... and there I was saying how great the AI is! :)
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Redmarkus5
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by Redmarkus5 »

And thanks for the kind remark Daz.

I tried to open your scenario but i got a load of error messages about not finding various .png files. I did copy paste to the folders indicated. Can you confirm the steps needed?
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dazoline II
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

And thanks for the kind remark Daz.

I tried to open your scenario but i got a load of error messages about not finding various .png files. I did copy paste to the folders indicated. Can you confirm the steps needed?


Only thing I can think of is the files are out of place, probably the graphics files. I just tried loading the pt2 file from my desktop and it worked (with master in at the desktop as well). The pt2 and the master files should go in the root of senarios. The sf-alternate folder that contains the graphics and other folders should go into the root of the graphics folder.
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dazoline II
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

ORIGINAL: tweber

I took a quick look. I like the new units and the names on the OOB. I also like that the map is not too crowded. Couple of thoughts to consider:

- Making the Romanians a separate regime will cause hassles for the German supply system. You cannot run supply through another regime so you will find situations where 1 regime 'blocks' the other. A different approach might be having more types of people. The axis side could have Fins, Germans, and Balkan people. You can give different people different combat capabilities and coloring (see the N.Africa scenario).

- I think your changes hinder the AI. Especially, if you are playing Germany. It is critical for the Soviets to blow those bridges.

- I think your combat penalty is pretty harsh on the Soviets. I am not sure they can recover.

I was thinking about giving the Germans a massive blitz capability in the first turn. Afterall, the Battle of Smolensk started on July 12th, just 20 days into the war. You can do this with a event (checked on a turn)

Check roung = 1
Check turn = 0
execmovemod (repeat for the ground move types)
end.ch
Check turn = 1
execmovemod (again repeat - hear you are resetting)
end.ch
end.ch

Here is a map of the early progress of the war. I would be tricky to put in mechanisms that allow the Germans to make such progress and then be stopped later on.



Thanks for taking a look, glad for the comments.

Ah those Romanians, I thought about this for a long time and I wanted to model the problems the Romanian's had fighting on the German side. The lack of upgraded equipment available from the German's, the lack of Romanian leadership, mixed goals for both regimes and eventually Romanian man power shortages. I didn't think about how the Ai would handle the Axis side. I was mainly thinking about an axis player managing all 3 axis regimes. I will have to think about how the AI could handle this, at the worst the Germans will eventually block the Romanians from moving deeper in to Russia at some point.

The blown bridges thing gets to be monotonous, not sure if its because I always play the AI++ but every bridge is blown every time I approach in about 3 hexes. Something for the wish list I guess, get those engineers working for their pay.

Yes the combat modifier is very harsh on the soviets, but and I guess this is where the balance lies I want to get the germans to a reasonable line in september/december. I wanted to simulate 2 things, the effort the germans had of slicing up giant soviet armies in the rush east. You can't do that unless one side is very weak. I have thought about reducing the initial german side of the shock maybe to 125% or 110%. The second thing is to simulate the encirclement of Minsk and later Smolensk. This can either be done by increasing movement or just slaughtering the units in place. I think one of the problems every war game has faced with Group Centre is putting the entire army group at Smolensk in July even if depleted wins the game for the germans as they don't have hitler to botch it for them. This gets me thinking about a supply drop when the Germans take Smolensk/Kiev for a couple of months.

Thanks for the remarks.
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tweber
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by tweber »

Another way to handle the Romanian issue, at least as far as production is concerned, is to make special 'Romanian production centers' that are limited.  Might make them be able to produce infantry only. 
 
If you make Romanian's a seperate people, you can modify their production throughout the game to simulate the shortage.
 
 
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Redmarkus5
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by Redmarkus5 »

Hi, that's how I've got it. here's the error message I get - notice the foward slash/ backslash\ thing?

Image
Attachments
error.jpg
error.jpg (22.98 KiB) Viewed 102 times
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dazoline II
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Hi, that's how I've got it. here's the error message I get - notice the foward slash/ backslash\ thing?

Image


Big Whoops on my part!
I'm using Real Mod by Nick69, he uses stream where the default master file dosen't. I put all his images into the default folder as I didn't want to redo every single reference to the images. As a workaround you could go into the editor and change the River/Stream items to point to images on your system.

Bug #1 logged.
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Bombur
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by Bombur »

Maybe you could include the stream graphics in your mod and point them to another directory or even to the default graphics directory as they won´t replace anything. You probably modded streams to work as small rivers, right????
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Bombur
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by Bombur »

I downloaded Nick´s graphics and used stream graphics. Streams are ok. but there are still something strange (lack of continuity) with major rivers.
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dazoline II
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

If your putting the graphics in where the defaults are the major rivers have a trick.
If I remember this correctly the sprite graphics are mixed up, note the 4,5,6,1,2,3 order.

In my mod with Nick69's graphics its 1,2,3,4,5,6.

Hope that helps.


Image
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sprites.jpg
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TPM
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by TPM »

Quick question - is the corps still the basic unit in your mod, like tweber's? I'd be very interested in this if it were...the other mod at division-level looks like too much clicking to me. Thanks.
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dazoline II
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RE: New Mod: Russia 41 - Extended

Post by dazoline II »

Yes the Corps/Army is still the default unit although like Tom's the OB is not accurate but representational only. You will find more types of Corps such as a motorised one in Group South and Mechanised ones, for each army group. In addition the armored corps have 2 different types of sub formations and the Russian armored army has changed as well. Most of the "OB" changes are just tweaks to give it a different flavour.

One of the things I really liked about Tom's original Russia 41 is it was at a higher level of organization than you usually see with the Russian front. Memories of reams of ACOW senarios dancing in my head all done at the divisional level.
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