I knew I shouldn't have done it!

[Adam Parker]

As a general follow up to my first post.
 
In purchasing GoA I believed I exercized full due diligence in knowing what I was receiving. Following the recent discussion here and reading AAR's I expected:
 
1. The only WW1 strategic PC game on the market.
 
2. Some serious bugs affecting long term play that had been corrected by the designer and awaiting a patch due soon but not of a capacity to prevent me learning the game.
 
3. Superb game play with a gutsy AI.
 
4. The ability to alter starting positions with each play.
 
5. Economic management without the need for micromanagement.
 
6. An interface that through patching was no longer out of date or "cluncky".
 
In none of my research did I come across any references to a game screen that on first install would measure 12 inches diagonally on a 19 inch screen and 18 inches diagonally after patching. Nor a game that couldn't scroll because its mouse-scrolling programming was faulty.
 
Just as in Advanced Tactics did I not come across any mention of an AI turn that simply gives the player a blank screen! Nor a map that couldn't handle map labels.
 
Just as in Hornet Leader did I not come across any mention of the inability to exit the game during play!
 
In every case these "design decisions" and "developer concession" were burried or not mentioned at all.
 
So yes. I feel vindicated in defining these as a poor show.
 
I'm not whinning. I gave due dilligence. If Matrix wishes its consumers to post before purchasing: "Hey guys what are the really stupid design decisions in this development?" So be it.
 
Happy Windowing,
Adam.

[TexHorns]

Call me a cynic but when I purchase a new game I immediatley go the game website, search for and download patches before playing my first game. I just expect that any new game I purchase, whether from Matrix or not, is going to require patches. Since I expect it, it doesn't bother me that I need to.

I am in the camp who believe that although annoying that the game doesn't fill the screen, the game play more than makes up for it. In fact once I start playing, I'm so engrossed that I don't notice it.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: TexHorns

I am in the camp who believe that although annoying that the game doesn't fill the screen, the game play more than makes up for it. In fact once I start playing, I'm so engrossed that I don't notice it.

Annoying? Here's the thing. In what other game has this ever hapened to you before, let alone a 21st Century game?

Of course we go and patch. Who doesn't know to expect that?

But in cases like GoA, there's this whole period of utter stupification where for 10 minutes a new player looks for the Windows 3.1 Maximise button and then when he can't find one and picks himself up of the floor, looks for a Sticky thread and when he can't find one - by fluke finds out that there's unbelievably a patch to address the issue, he goes to play and then finds the mouse scrolling broken!

Surely I've made myself clear by now? This design decision is so ridiculous, so atrociously unique, at least do me the courtesy of not hiding it but alerting me to it. Then I can decide if I want to give my money to you.

Isn't that fair?

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Lastly, I am talking about games, developers, publishers, and customers in the general sense. My comments are not directed specifically at GOA, Frank Hunter, Matrix, and/or Adam Parker.

No offense taken at all Mark, I agree with you sentiments completely.

In fact the "reviews" that sway me towards a game now are purely player reviews.

It was the consumer feedback here that sold me on the game, especially comments along the lines that the original challenges with the UI were no more.

Unfortunately GoA finds itself synonymous with "bad UI" just as Ron Dockall and his Russio-German War franchise is currently labelled amongst the game buying public. That's what kept be from buying GoA for so long.

It's a no brainer that if people want a WW1 PC strategy game, this is it. But it's an "it" with a twist.

I was overjoyed to see posts that the twist was apparently no more.

[MarkShot]

I have to say that I find game reviews fairly suspect these days.

Here is an interesting exercise. Go to any game site and go back 3-5 years and read the reviews for that year of released game. Now, by the present day, you should know the games that were reviewed quite well. You should know if they were lemons or gems. You should know if the the games every got completed. You should know if they had staying power and replayability. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

Now, I bet you that you will find that the game reviews will tend to be mainly positive and gloss over what would be show stopper issues for many games which in retrospect were lemons or at best mediocre offerings. Sadly, reading reviews leaves a lot to be desired.

Like I said that's why I am not in hurry to pick up new titles. If they are truly gems, they will not lose their luster after a year or two.

In any case, I apologize if it appeared that I was being especially critical of you, Adam. I am sorry. I meant to say that generally consumers also have a role to play in purchasing products which they ultimately consider to be substandard.

Lastly, I am talking about games, developers, publishers, and customers in the general sense. My comments are not directed specifically at GOA, Frank Hunter, Matrix, and/or Adam Parker.

[SMK-at-work]

To suggest that "good content" implies and even forgives programming ineptness (and developer ignorance) when it comes to UI's and user-friendliness, is just ridiculous.

I'm certainly not suggesting that good content implies programming ineptness of anything!![8|]  But there are plenty of games around with fabulous UI's and all the depth of a mud puddle........this game has it the other way around.

I see nothign wrong with forgiving such shortcomings as a game has in light of its strengths.  If you're not prepared to do that hten how do you justify anythign at all?  Nothing is perfect so you'd always be complaining about any errors regardless of how good the rest of it was.

I'm much more willing to forgive a clunky UI for a great game than I am a crappy game with a slick UI.....because I'm simply not interested in a crappy game regardless of the UI.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I'm much more willing to forgive a clunky UI for a great game than I am a crappy game with a slick UI.....because I'm simply not interested in a crappy game regardless of the UI.

I can accept that.

Just have developers let the consumer know of a game's significant failings beforehand.

Like I said, a courteous Sticky thread on this forum would have saved me the shock and time of what I've experienced.

[Sardonic]

I thought the accuracy of the simulation was what was important

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

In none of my research did I come across any references to a game screen that on first install would measure 12 inches diagonally on a 19 inch screen and 18 inches diagonally after patching. Nor a game that couldn't scroll because its mouse-scrolling programming was faulty.

Just as in Hornet Leader did I not come across any mention of the inability to exit the game during play!

Adam.

I posted this scroll problem before the first patch and it did not get fixed with the patch.

As far as exiting from Hornet Leader during game play, go read the replies I got when I complained about this. Wait, did I say replies? I meant excuses. Now I DO have to give some credit here to the developer because now they are considering doing this in the next patch. Had I kept my mouth shut, who knows.

To all of you that settle for all the problems NOT fixed: The next time you buy a new car and the electric window on the drivers side won't work, hey, it's got a good engine and it gets good gas mileage, so just keep your pie hole shut!

I don't understand why all of us CONSUMERS are not on the same side?! [&:]

[Erik Rutins]

Adam,

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
I scroll through 6 pages of this forum to find a thread where someone else thought this odd. What the hell I register my game and go to downloads and see patch 1.10 - wow it gives me 1280x1024 resolution.
What no one at Matrix could sticky this information here: "Attention 2007 gamers if you buy this game and think it odd that it won't fill up your screen go here and download this patch". That would have been a nice courtesy.

I find this a bit unfair. We posted a press release and a site announcement when the patch was made available. That announcement is still pinned in this forum. All our games have their patches listed in the Latest Download section and on each game's page under downloads. I think it's standard practice for most gamers to check one of those areas for a patch before they start playing a game.

We've also been posting once or twice a week regarding the 1.2 public beta updates.

I install the 44mb patch and voila! Now the game fills most of my screen - still not all even though I'm running 1280x1024 normally. "And btw gamers after you install the patch it still will not fill up all of your screen - happy gaming".

That's odd, it fills up my screen - can you post a screenshot of how much extra space you've got?

But no! The game scrolls worse than my cell phone. I can't even get the map to scroll southwards at all! What happened to moving the mouse to the edge of the screen-type scrolling circa 1995?

This game really requires the arrow keys to scroll. I agree, that is a pain and it's on Frank's list to address, but it's a minor issue in the scheme of things. I hope the scrolling will be improved soon - in the meantime, you've got some great gameplay and very workable arrow key scrolling.

So thats $34 for Hornet Leader than gives me the sensation of flying a brick, $45 for Advanced Tactics whose design is so advanced it can't handle map labels and $40 for this, that won't even scroll. Dare I suggest wheel mouse support...?

I'm not sure why you are so down on HL - I read your post that it crashed on you once, but assumed that was an isolated occurrence. If it's crashing regularly (it has never crashed on the three systems I've tested it on) then that's a serious issue and we'll either fix it or refund your money. We don't expect you to pay for a game that doesn't work on your system. HL itself is an inexpensive and fun adaptation of the classic HL card game and I think it does that quite well and provides a lot of replayability and some interesting campaigns.

However, I saw your post on AT and I just can't understand how you can dismiss an entire game because it doesn't do map labels the way you like. The locations have names which are shown on mouse-over or click, so it's not as if there are no labels. Also, the labels show up on the strategic overview screen. Finally, the developer heard your request and is looking into it. Note that AT is getting raves from other gamers and being reviewed very positively as a flexible and fun game. I have not heard from anyone else that the lack of always visible map labels was a game-breaker.

I'm sorry you're disappointed in your last few purchases, but I think that they deserve a second look from what I've seen of your criticisms so far. Let me know if I can help.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Anyway, I also note that someone edited my first post above phantomly. OK they took a reference out regarding the Matrix-approved retail outlet where I bough the game. The only true war gaming shop in Australia. But it was a pretty stupid thing to do since I also helped sell a copy of "Battleground" to another consumer whilst I was there.

As far as I'm aware, no one has edited your post.

I see Matrix more and more now as a dumping ground for prototypes and poor re-releases of games and it's such a shame as to me they pioneered digital downloading and brought back the printed manual. Awesome things for the hobby.

To be frank, If you could back up that criticism with some well-argued facts, I would pay attention to it. I don't find the body of evidence you've amassed so far to be particularly convincing.

In all honesty, Frank's games have never had the slickest interfaces, but the design and gameplay are his strong suit and Guns of August has that in spades. In the end, that's what games are really about after all. I think most folks know what they're expecting from a Frank Hunter game and in a market of lone developers you have to realize that it's not possible for a game developed by one person to not reflect that person's style.

When it comes to HL, you reported one crash - I've seen a few other reports but overall the game is extremely stable. As far as AT goes, again take a look at the forums - the vast majority of gamers are singing its praises and your criticism comes down to map labels.

Regards,

- Erik

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

ORIGINAL: MikePalmer

Gary Puckett!? And the Union Gap? NFW!!!!!

Righteous Brothers!!!!!

Well, it's not like I just downloaded thier software...
The R Br's popped into mind shortly after the post-wasn't sure.

Yes......yes I see your apology(?), but even comparing a crass and commercial bubble gum group of wannabes like GP and the Union Gap to the Righteous Brothers is absolute sacrilege!.
If I had the power to do so, I would forbid you to eat pizza and spaghetti for a year.
Beer and whiskey would cause you hives and the mailman would be caught reading *and* fondling your mail!
I might hope in future you strongly consider your musical comparisons before you post them on this serious forum, (with many "old-timers" )who hold precious memories of things they were doing when this music was being written.[:D]

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

ORIGINAL: MikePalmer

Gary Puckett!? And the Union Gap? NFW!!!!!

Righteous Brothers!!!!!

Well, it's not like I just downloaded thier software...
The R Br's popped into mind shortly after the post-wasn't sure.

Yes......yes I see your apology(?), but even comparing a crass and commercial bubble gum group of wannabes like GP and the Union Gap to the Righteous Brothers is absolute sacrilege!.
If I had the power to do so, I would forbid you to eat pizza and spaghetti for a year.
Beer and whiskey would cause you hives and the mailman would be caught reading *and* fondling your mail!
I might hope in future you strongly consider your musical comparisons before you post them on this serious forum, (with many "old-timers" )who hold precious memories of things they were doing when this music was being written.[:D]

No spaghetti? OK, I'm sorry already!
I do have at least one cd (and LP) of the R Br's, but nothing from G. P.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro




Well, it's not like I just downloaded thier software...
The R Br's popped into mind shortly after the post-wasn't sure.

Yes......yes I see your apology(?), but even comparing a crass and commercial bubble gum group of wannabes like GP and the Union Gap to the Righteous Brothers is absolute sacrilege!.
If I had the power to do so, I would forbid you to eat pizza and spaghetti for a year.
Beer and whiskey would cause you hives and the mailman would be caught reading *and* fondling your mail!
I might hope in future you strongly consider your musical comparisons before you post them on this serious forum, (with many "old-timers" )who hold precious memories of things they were doing when this music was being written.[:D]

No spaghetti? OK, I'm sorry already!
I do have at least one cd (and LP) of the R Br's, but nothing from G. P.

I can see the healing beginning now.

[SMK-at-work]

I think most folks know what they're expecting from a Frank Hunter game

 
I'm in a minority then, 'cos I'd never heard of him before "Trench"....I bought it solely for the subject matter and scale. 

[Joel Rauber]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


This game really requires the arrow keys to scroll. I agree, that is a pain and it's on Frank's list to address, but it's a minor issue in the scheme of things. I hope the scrolling will be improved soon - in the meantime, you've got some great gameplay and very workable arrow key scrolling.


- Erik

Or don't scroll at all; I use the jump map; I find that faster than scrolling anyway with arrows (or with the move to the edge technique as in other games.)

[kcole4080]

I'm with SMK. I bought it for the subject, and after reading some user reviews here.
I'm quite happy with the purchase & would do it again in a second.
My game scrolls with the mouse at the edge of the screen, or most often, I use the arraow keys after clicking on the map.
The jump feature is handy, too.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As far as I'm aware, no one has edited your post.

My apologies Erik you're right on this. I just saw another thread where I posted what I thought was the missing information.

[MorningDew]

ORIGINAL: Joel Rauber
Or don't scroll at all; I use the jump map; I find that faster than scrolling anyway with arrows (or with the move to the edge technique as in other games.)

Bingo! There are good alternatives.

Much ado about nothing from where I sit, but I also purchased Franks Civil War game so I had some idea of what to expect from the UI. However, before buying GoA, I read all the posts complaining about the interface. And then Frank came on, admitted interface development was neither his strong suite nor his passion, which convinced me I wanted this game. Have not been disappointed.

[SlickWilhelm]

I install the 44mb patch and voila! Now the game fills most of my screen - still not all even though I'm running 1280x1024 normally.

Adam, I'm running on a 19" LCD monitor that has a native resolution of 1280x1024. With the patch installed that supports 1280x1024, GoA runs full screen for me(albeit it's really a window that fills my entire screen). I'm wondering if your monitor is maybe running at 1600x1200 resolution? Or do you perhaps have a 19" widescreen monitor? In order to get the game to fill your screen, your desktop resolution will have to match the game's resolution.

As far as your criticisms, I think you won't find much argument out there that the mouse scrolling should've been implemented from the beginning, and was a minor design mistake. Fair enough. But to expect Matrix or Frank Hunter to post every little flaw in a game that may or may not irritate each individual customer, is unrealistic.

Hopefully Frank will get around to adding mouse scroll and maybe a true full-screen mode(and maybe some wide screen resolutions, too). But for me, these issues are not show stoppers, and I'm enjoying the game immensely. YMMV.