Strategic Eastern front games

[Chris21wen]

Could anybody tell me if there're any recently designed games based on the Eastern front similar to WIR. I seem to remember someboby was bringing one out but I've never seen it?

[freeboy]

There has been a loooooong design from 2x3 games.. Gary grigsby's design and development team but who knows if it will ever surface.. nothing here I am afraid.. TOAW3 sold here has lots of Eastern front scenarios.. some with ia somewithout

[Neilster]

Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones, Bargration, hypotheticals, Stalingrad, Kharkov and many more. Not to mention the dozens of other WW2, WW1, Cold War, modern and near future scenarios. It's an excellent game if you're interested in anything 20th Century warfare. You won't regret buying it.

Korsun Pocket is very good also but much more limited in scope. When World in Flames comes out, you'll be able to play the Eastern Front to your heart's content, with the added interest of Arctic convoys, the Battle of the Atlantic, Japanese invasions of the Soviet Far East, Axis invasions of the Near East, production, politics etc.

tt.asp?forumid=110&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

Here's a very early (and much lower resolution than the final ones will be) screenshot of the northern part of the Eastern Front early in Barbarossa.

Cheers, Neilster

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones,

Large EF scenario that covers the whole war? Is it pbem only?

[Zakhal]

Decisive battles series that is superior to TOAW (imho atleast graphically) has lots of east front scenarios too including 1941-44 russia:

Korsun Pocket Battles in Normandy Battles in Italy Battlefront Trouble in Bastogne Kursk Run5 Husky Variant Crusader Gallipoli Overlord - On To Paris Patton - Master of Battle Tutorial Assault on Port Stanley Rommel - Master of Battle Rommel - Master of Battle Kreta Steve Fords Free Landing MacArthur - Master of Battle A Wolf By The Ears Patton - Master of Battle War in Europe - June 1941 El Alamein III Luzon Patton's Husky Hells Gate MacArthur - Master of Battle Operation Merkur Operation Wanda Crimea 1854 Burma Campaign Rommel - Master of Battle Liberation Campaign Rocroi - 1643 Operation Husky Crimea 1854 On To Antwerp Run5 Operation Shingle Variant Velikiye Luki On To Rome Kursk Fall Weiss Patton in Charge MegaCampaign - Churchill Island Campaign TAO5 Battle for Moscow On To Moscow Velikiye Luki KT’s Operation Market Garden Sea Lion 1940

Som of them have AI som are only pbem. The 1941 War in Europe covers the entire map of europe (including russia naturally).

[JamesM]

There was a game to be called "Road to Moscow", but it became vapourware. Shame, from the screen shots and the information given it looked like it could have been a very good game.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Matrix's The Operational Art of War 3 has heaps of Eastern Front scenarios, with small, medium and large scales. They include Barbarossa 41, 41-45 ones,

Large EF scenario that covers the whole war? Is it pbem only?

There are a few at different scales from memory. I'm not sure about which sides have AI for the 41-45 ones. I'm at work so I can't check. Someone else might know. Sorry.

Cheers, Neilster

[Dave Ferguson]

As far as i know there are currently no strategic games covering the eastern front. For strategic I presume you want to have control over your production process.
 
The operational art of war IMO sufffers from far too much detail and you may end up in endless arguments about the relevant virtues of differing aircraft variants. However you cannot produce just what you want.
 
Commander, Europe at War is a new game which covers the eastern front at strategic level so you might want to check out the forum here at Matrix. The hex scale is somewhat similar to WIR. At present there is no specifically russian scenario, you come with the baggage of the western front.
 
A lot of gamers like to have more hexes available to allow for a more operational feel to their gaming but here you are moving toward operational level with production. The operation art of war IMO does not give a good overall feeling of operational war because of its peculier supply handling and more importantly lack of command changes, your formations are locked from the start of the game.
 
Strategic Command would allow you to cover the eastern front if you can live with squares rather than hexes and a 'isometric' map, not sure whether it has production though.
 
Decision games are developing War in Europe which is a computer port of SPI's classic board game, it has lots of hexes but simple generic units, a panzer division is a panzer division. You do have production though. however it is NOT a new design and there is no AI, for some this will be a advantage.
 
Schwerpunkts Russo-German war covered the eastern front at the grand operational level but is now an 'old' game and the hoped for sequel is a long way away due to the developers day job committments.

[Dave Ferguson]

On the slitherine site they just posted that the first patch of Commander, Europe At War will incude a scenario and MAP editor, so a specific east front variant might be possible.
 
Thinks, a remake of Schwerpukts Russo-German War is a possibility!!!!
 

[Chris21wen]

Thanks for the replies guys, but it seems I'll have to keep playing WiR. The game that I was thinking about was Road to Moscow. Pity.

[ravinhood]

There's also Russo German War by Schwerpunkt games Ron Dockal independent developer. It has the Barbarossa campaign as well. It's probably not as user friendly as the above pictured game or TOAW III, but, quite a good simulation none the less. Just google it eitehr by Russo German War or Schwerpunkt and you'll probably find it. I think NWS can get it for you also.

[sullafelix]

RGW has no AI to help you correct? Like being able to delegate somethings to the computer, such as air or what have you. It's just like a boardgame where you have yo move every piece and every decision is yours. Or am I mistaken.

[ravinhood]

messed up trying to do URL's hehe sorry.

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

YES RGW has an AI read futher. The more recent game is Anglo German War Check out these AGW screenshots awesome of the Western theater of operations to include Africa has an AI as well. These are as close to your board game conversions as you're likely to see for most computer wargames. I like that about Schwerpunkt games. He does things like they outta be done. Hexes and dice and great looking counters we all grew up knowing and playing with. Well all of us who grew up in the 60's and 70's that is. lol

Follow this LINK SCHWERPUNKT to get more info about the game and screenshots.

From Wargamer Bronze Game of the Year review:
Russo-German War '41 - '44 excels at play balance. Both the German and the Russian player has an equal chance of winning any one of the 51 scenarios. This is possible because victory is determined by how well one plays against an opponent and not based on destroying the opposing army or holding all the cities in Russia. At the end of each scenario, each player receives a letter grade (from A+ to F-), which is based on the number of cities held, the number of enemy units destroyed, and the number of losses sustained (each of which is compared to the historical value and the amount of difference is used to derive the letter grade). Thus, victory is not a pursuit for some abstract number, but a determination of how well each individual performed against his opponent as well as his historical counterpart. The manual hits the mark when it states: "It is very difficult to obtain an A, and almost impossible in some scenarios. To achieve a C+ means you have done better than your historical counterpart, and is cause for celebration." Russo-German War '41 - '44 will have players thinking so hard that it may cause them to break out in a sweat.

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Russo-German War '41-'44


AI and Multi-Player Gaming
As an opponent, the AI is extremely competent and players will find it difficult to beat. The AI is good at finding the weakness in a player's line or plan of attack. While capable in both the defensive and offensive roles, the AI can sometimes react slowly to serious threats against its position, such as failing to defend key cities adequately or retreating to a better line. However, the same could be said of practically any human opponent. Those who wish to face a human opponent can do so either head-to-head or PBEM.

This is probably the single best Barbarossa East Front computer game on the market. By an independent developer who still works for a living and makes great games in his garage (as it always should have been done imho) Follow this LINK to WARGAMERS excellent Review of "Russo German War" Bronze Medal Winner in 2001

RGW has no AI to help you correct? Like being able to delegate somethings to the computer, such as air or what have you. It's just like a boardgame where you have yo move every piece and every decision is yours. Or am I mistaken.

I'm not sure what you are asking?? Do you mean does the AI play the game FOR YOU when you play? No, it doesn't do that. It plays against you and you have to play your side of coursel. Why would you want a game where the ai plays for you? That sounds like those games HTTR/COTA, don't understand why anyone would want games like that where the ai plays and you just watch or only give miniscule orders. Why play a wargame in the first place if you didn't want to play it to begin with? lol

One things most certain you better like MONSTER games and lots of detail and depth if you want to tackle this baby. This is the Drang Nach whatchamacallit of computer wargames. lol

[sullafelix]

Yes I guess I'm one of those twisted freaks who likes to be able to give orders to a subordinate AI. I do like boardgames and as you did grew up on them. But I prefer smaller counter sets than monster games. I really loved the SSG 80's games where you could choose to do either. I don't have the time anymore to move every brigade and support piece in a theater as large as the Russian front. Thats why I and a lot of others were so bummed at the vaporware status of Road to Moscow. Now that looked like a winner.
 
Also V4V and Panthers games Kiev etc. gave you the option to let the AI run your Air or supply or both. I was very grieved to hear from SSG that they would probably never release a game anymore where you didn't have to take care of every fromation and support. I was really hoping that Battlefront was an updated version of Panzer Battles. Don't get me wrong I bought it and like it.
 
In the meantime I will get on with my life while you will continue adding up the odds for an attack of three units against Poltava and then start planning next weeks moves, literally.[:D]

[ravinhood]

Lol who said I played these games NOWADAYS?? I just like HEXES and DICE didn't you read the fine print? haha There's an old SSI game called "SECOND FRONT" as well. Old DOS game that's not too complicated and doesn't have 10,000 pieces to move every turn. I finished a game of that one. I'd say it's more like "Advanced Tactics" looks that is coming out soon and is much easier to play the Eastern front than say this "Russo German War". In fact I really don't like Eastern Front games. Why do people want to play the Germans or Russians??? I like playing the Americans or Brits or France. I'm a big fan of the Western Theater and Africa myself. But, I still don't care for the monster games. But, if you REEELY want a monster game of the Normandy Invasion get this. D-Day The Beginning of the End
That is definitely THE LONGEST DAY the LONGEST MONTH the LONGEST YEAR the LONGEST LIFETIME of a game to play. lol If anyone ever wanted a strategy game depicting the Normandy invasion with the ability to play out EVERY SINGLE BATTLE/ATTACK tactically from beginning to end this is the monster game for you. I never even knew about this game until recently.
 
I really much prefer KISS games, though I do own several of these monster games and have looked at them and played a few turns. It's like the reviewer said, if you're not into these mathematical monsters of calculations and pieces then it will give you a headache straight away. Unless you can play like you're actually at war day after day until you finish, meaning little sleep and playing turn after turn only sleeping 2 hours in a 24 hour period and then playing some more then these monster games are just too hard to keep up with what you have been doing.
 
I didn't have computers when I was 12 so this is all we had. We spent our weekends and even afternoons playing some of these hex based wargames. Most of them the early versions before Avalon Hill started putting out games like Drang Nach whatchamacallit with 10000 units and maps the size of your garage. lol I never did advance to the monster size games. Though I helped setup many of them only to never play them. I didn't even go for Advanced Squad Leader. The origional Squad Leader was plenty enough and fine to me. ASL just created monster nightmares for me when I saw the rule book and some of the game setups.
 
In the early days of computing the first few wargames out were pretty much like a board wargame. There was Knights in the Desert, Tigers in the Snow, Battle for Normandy right off the bat that I can recall.
 
I don't recall any other early version of the eastern front, but, that "Road to Moscow" a game that was made in DOS. I know it cause I have it somewhere around here. I'll have to pull it out and tell you who made it back then. Ahh I found it "ROAD TO MOSCOW" by BA'RAC LIMITED names included in the back are JEFF BILLINGS, TERRY GRAY, JIM LONG and KEN MANISCALCO. Program Design PHIL GARDOKI and BOB BEST, Graphics Design Gred Mojher. COPYRIGHT 1984 So, Matrixgames really can use this TITLE I dont' think. I knew there was already a "Road to Moscow" game though cause I knew I had played it on the C64. Also, is Jeff Billings any relation to Joel Billings?
 
HEY Who remembers this first GRAND STRATEGIC WW2 game "CLASH OF WILLS" by D.K.G. games? Who was the designer? hehe Lol I was just reading the warranty and it has a LIFETIME replacement for $5 on the  DISKETTE that 5-1/4 floppy type hahah. I wonder if they are still around there is an address to send to. 1985 Copyright. Man I had forgotten some of the great games of the 80's. This actually was one of the better ones and a decent AI. You had to play the Germans though. This is one of those KISS games I was talking about also. Build, move and attack, pretty basic pretty simple.
 
Oh my goodness I found one of the WORST games of the 80's GULF STRIKE by AH. This was definitely a crappy game. I never did figure out really how to play it or what the hell it was suppose to be representing. lol I think the war in the gulf that never happened. lol
 
Ahhh there's Carriers at War and Europe Ablaze, two of SSG's finests.

[sullafelix]

There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of. It was a Frank Hunter game I thought. Whoever was doing it never finished. It was a real shame because it was all over the magazines and online. It looked like it was close to being finished. I think IMagic was going to release it.
 
I remember all the games you mention. I even still have some of them. I liked Talonsoft's BTR but I really want a remake of Europe Ablaze.
 
The king of monster games was Campaign for North Africa. I remember reading that you needed to calculate water amounts to make sure the Italians had enough for pasta( I'm not joking). I don't think they ever found anyone who actually finished a game.

[Halsey]

Oh, there are a few of us who have completed a game of CNA.[;)][:D]

[ravinhood]

There never was a Road to moscow that ever came out that I knew of.

Welp now you've heard of it and I've listed it and the designer and his team and even the copyright date. I still have the manual and the game on 5-1/4 floppy for C=64.
I even did a google for you http://home.comcast.net/~evanbrooks/20t ... 20(Ba'rac)

ROAD TO MOSCOW
(C) Ba'rac Limited; Philip Gardocki and Bob Best; 1984; UNRATED
Int/Land/Op-Str
1

The Russian Front, World War II. Solitaire play only (the computer handles the Soviets) with both campaign (c. 12 hours of playing time) and year-long scenarios (c. 2-4 hours of playing time).

ROAD TO MOSCOW
(C) Game Designers' Workshop; Phil Gardocki and Greg Mojher; 1987; UNRATED
Adv/Land/Op-Str
1-2

I probably have the largest library of computer wargames of anyone from 1982 to present day. And that's not even having all of Matrixgames of today. lol I'll eventually get them when the timing is right. When I die someone can do some documentary on me and all the wargames and computers I still have.

[sullafelix]

The one I was talking about was the one right underneath it from 1998 and it was cancelled. Thats the one that people talk about on the forum. I don't think many people have heard of the 1984 game. I know I never did and I was a C64 wargaming nut at that time. The only other Road to Moscow I've heard about was a magazine game about Charles the Xll and Poltava. Or maybe it was On to Moscow not sure now.