AB's extended map..

[rogueusmc]

I am taking the plunge for the first time...[:D]

I wanna start a game with the extended map but am having trouble deciding on a scenario. Will y'all chime in as to the one you would pick and why?

Semper Fi,
Lee

[jwilkerson]

Really depends on the experience you're looking for ... some MODs emphasize OOB accuracy .. others focus on tweaking the data to make the engine work better ... and there are enough now that I doubt too many people have played them all .. I sure haven't.

CHS - strickly an OOB mode

Nik - primarily trying to improve game play

I'm not sure what others are available .. I've only played the above.

You can play stock on AB non-extended (which I've done) but not sure you can play it on extended.

At this point I'd play any of the above. So would probably depend more on what my opponent wanted.

ABs map has tougher terrain on the Asian mainland - and for me at least that makes it tougher on the Japanese side (which I always wind up playing somehow). But I enjoy a challenge.

[rogueusmc]

He has stock modded for his extended map...I thought about doing that but if I want to do something different, I might as well do it all the way...[:D]

[rockmedic109]

I really like CHS.  Air units at squadron size.  More than two flavors of AKs and APs.  The reduction in AK load size does a lot to slow down the pace of the game, more than I would've thought.
 
If you're playing the AI, it will be too easy to hold Hong Kong, even with LCUs set to no replacements and fortifications dropped to 2.  You can try dropping fortifications to 1, but I don't know if that will work either.  Dropping them to 0 makes Hong Kong fall on Dec 8.  I've only monkeyed with the fortification levels.  Maybe adding a unit or adding to the size of the LCU that attacks Hong Kong would work better.
 
I am playing CHS 2.08b nikmod and am having a blast.  I found three errors in the Database before going through the game.  I think they fixed it, but it might not hurt to glance through it before starting.  The errors are easily located {DUR twice what it should be} in 3 planes.  AB has already fixed the one IJN CL that carried 216 or so Long Lances.
 
FWIW, I would recomment CHS.

[rogueusmc]

Soviet Navy active or no is my biggest conundrum...

[eloso]

I'm playing 2 PBEM games currently with scenario 160. One of them is at the end of April 42 which has given me a feel for the air model. I've liked the results so far. We've had some pretty big dogfights and the results aren't so lopsided.

We have house rules for the Soviets (they were activated pre-game). I haven't done anything with them yet aside from force positioning and aircraft upgrades. The Soviet navy hasn't moved.

[rogueusmc]

How would the AI handle the Soviet Navy in their backyard? Does the AI mine the Soviet ports?

[jwilkerson]

Ah, I'm getting the sneaking Suspicion that you want to play against the AI. Hum, different ball game. Any MOD that moves things around in the slots, at all, will give a degraded game against the AI. It basically boils down to how many things have been moved. Also LCUs that are in new slots (not used by stock) are not known to the AI and will likely not get used (sometimes the AI will grab a unit by type - but many functions are by slot). So you're right in being concerned about the AI performance of your choice.

I have played stock and NikMod on the AB map against the AI and gotten a reasonable game. And my NikMod AB AI game was even as the Japanese and I was surprised that I could get a decent game with that combo.

[rogueusmc]

Nik mod gave you a decent game? I regulate myself in all my games...I only do things that I believe were possible...I try not to game the system. If you think Nikmod would give me an enjoyable game against the AI, then I may go that route. I'm not so sure that the Soviet Navy being active would cause more problems than it solves.

Thanks y'all,
Lee

[rockmedic109]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Ah, I'm getting the sneaking Suspicion that you want to play against the AI. Hum, different ball game. Any MOD that moves things around in the slots, at all, will give a degraded game against the AI. It basically boils down to how many things have been moved. Also LCUs that are in new slots (not used by stock) are not known to the AI and will likely not get used (sometimes the AI will grab a unit by type - but many functions are by slot). So you're right in being concerned about the AI performance of your choice.

I have played stock and NikMod on the AB map against the AI and gotten a reasonable game. And my NikMod AB AI game was even as the Japanese and I was surprised that I could get a decent game with that combo.

OUCH. CHS moves a lot of things around. Is this more of a problem later than early? AI seems to be working for now {JAN 42}, doing a fair job of kicking my backsides all over DEI {It's supposed to and I keep the allies seperated for the most part}.

The AI not using LCU in different slot might be the reason why Hong Kong needed fortification level of 50 to fall around Christmas Day and never falls in CHS.

Does the degradation get worse as the campaign moves along? Would it be better to shelve CHS and go back to stock {or a mod that doesn't move slots around}?

[captskillet]

Playing CHS 2.08c experimental (no bloody mess air battles) and have had a decent game from AI...........am up to June '42 and the AI hasn't impaled the KB yet on a death mission into Indian Ocean yet as it has in other games!

[m10bob]

I have played nothing but mods on the extended maps since they came out and have never encountered a Japanese AI failing to use units..

CHS....RHS...Nikmod/CHS......and a couple of others..
I played CHS against Japanese AI all the way to approx 10/44, excellent game..

I have much experience with RHS/CVO, all versions as a tester..

NOTHING would ever cause me to leave the extended maps!! Andrew was/is a genius..

I feel he and some of the other modders could have been on the "payroll", but I suspect they make more in their real-life roles..

[ny59giants]

I am also a convert to AB's extended maps. [&o][&o][&o]

I have just started a PBEM with CHS Scenario 158c (lastest and greatest Nik Mod) as the Allies (12/41).
I have a CHS against the Japanese AI with Scenario 160 (1/42).
I just got my computer fixed and have found that playing on AB's maps is the only way I will go. If I start a second PBEM it will be either BigB's v1.4 on extended map or take the plunge and try RHS level 7 which goes even further than AB's map

[Feinder]

Even if you just play stock, AB's maps are PURDY.  And if you play with the extended maps, they're even PURDIER!
 
I've just started a PBEM vs. Bilbow, it's really nice.  It's certainly different than stock: bases aren't so developed, you actually have shipping shortages (I've heard on both sides, but at this point, I'm only concerned with my own problems *grin*), and I get the feeling that they've put a bunch of new leaders in, esp for the Brits (thus far).
 
-F-

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

He has stock modded for his extended map...I thought about doing that but if I want to do something different, I might as well do it all the way...[:D]

Actually, the stock scenario conversions are for the "non-extended" map, which doesn't include Aden or Panama. The extended map was originally created for CHS, but has been used for a few other scenarios since.

Andrew

PS: Thanks for the kind comments.

PPS: Out of interest - I was going over my old list of base-to-base distances recently and doing some number crunching. It turns out that the average distance errors for my list (included in the map documentation) of example base-to-base distances is as follows:

- Stock map, assuming a scale of 60 nautical miles/hex - 17%
- Stock map, assuming a scale of 60 statute miles/hex - 14%
- My map, given a scale of 60 statute miles/hex - 10%

Note that there is no such thing as an error free 2D map of an area this large. These figures do show that the stock map is closer to using statute miles than nautical miles, which is basically what I discovered when I started drawing my own map almost 3 years ago...

[Andrew Brown]

Oh, and regarding Hong Kong. I ran quite a few AI vs AI tests using CHS, and I found that using the current forts and terrain combination (i.e Mountain terrain for the HK hex) , the base would usually fall around the end of December 41, which is historical. In games using the stock map it usually falls in just a few days.

Of course this means that if playing as Allies vs Japanese AI it is possible to hold it for longer, but that is how it goes vs the AI. CHS is primarily designed for PBEM play.

Andrew

[rockmedic109]

Andrew

Please do not take my comments as criticism in any way. I Love CHS. In it's first incarnation Hong Kong fell on Dec 27. That's just about perfect. Something Stock never came close to.

Since 2.0 and above I have tried to get the same results or something close but haven't been able to succeed. I turn replacements off for Hong Kong {as well as PI and Malaya}, drop the fortifications to 2 and the AI doesn't seem to send enough. Eventually the AI gets to the point where their own bombardment attacks cost them a couple dozen men each time and deliberate/shock attacks cost them several hundred while not reducing the allies enough to make a difference even without replacements.

I dropped fortifications to 0 and it fell on Dec 8. Not sure, but perhaps they have too many guns {thus IJA bombardments fail} or the attacking unit has too few.

Perhaps modifying the number of supplies will work.

I understand CHS is geared more to PBEM. But I imagine quite a few enjoy it in AI games {I do}. I cannot ask or expect that a work of this magnitude be modified just to make me happy. I've read many great ideas on these forums and implemented a few in my games. My input is for those that play CHS against the AI. If they can use the info to make minor tweaks, great.

Thank You

[rogueusmc]

Cool beans y'all...am starting the CHS Nik variant extended...it'll prolly be fun.