HQ influence

Gary Grigsby's strategic level wargame covering the entire War in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 or beyond.

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Mike Wood
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Mike Wood »

Hello...

I just studied all sixty equations that use the corps and command headquarters values. I was correct. All offensive values must be prepared. Nick may have been talking about defensive values. Headquarters units may provide bonuses to units within range for defensive purposes, even if not prepared for those locations. Allow me to expand my explanation and include defensive values:

For attacking units:

One command and one corps headquarters are useful to all units within range, if a random roll is less than the preparedness of each of the two headquarters and the units are in combat at that location.

So, if I have a corps headquarters with a range of one and with a preparedness of 85 and a target of Oklahoma City and the headquarters is zero or one hex away from that Oklahoma City, all friendly units in combat at Oklahoma City will gain a combat bonus if a random number from 0 to 99 is less than or equal to 85. Having two or more corps headquarters units will not help any more, although each will get a preparedness roll and if any pass, the bonus will be applied. The command headquarters operates the same, but usually have greater ranges. These rules sometimes apply.

For defending units:

One command and one corps headquarters are useful to all units within range.

So, if I have a corps headquarters with a range of three hexes and with a target of Oklahoma City and Norman, Oklahoma (range three hexes) is attacked, all friendly units in combat at Norman, Oklahoma will gain a combat bonus. The command headquarters operates the same, but usually have greater ranges. These rules sometimes apply.

For units in general:

Please note that there are many combat routines called by attackers and defenders and these general rules do not always apply to all cases. And, in some cases other values are tested, such as the percentage of healthy elements in the headquarters or the total number of healthy elements in the headquarters. In some cases, bonuses only apply if headquarters if in the same hex with the unit and in some, a headquarters can only benefit a single unit.

Be advised that the game does not calculate attack and defense values and then consult a CRT, like most board games. Individual elements and attack and defend over a series of phases and the headquarters bonuses can affect different element types in differing ways in different phases. The assault values I print on the screen, during combat or the orders phase, are only general values which show approximate strength. Like the air to air calculations, many, many equations are used to produce the combat results. This makes it impossible to give the players a list of the equations. The sixty equations that use the headquarters values in combat are only a few of the hundreds of combat equations.

If I had a couple days to work on it, I could be more specific, but I am trying to write a tactical carrier game, so I must return to it.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood
ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

you don't have to create one, you just modify an existing one. For this particular test i used the Rising Sun scenario.

or you can just take my word for it. (I know....when pigs fly maybe....[:)] )
Not quite that bad. [;)] If someone (including you) has actually run the tests and posted the results, then I got no problem (other than missing reading the thread or forgetting it two years later).

But we have a beautiful example here of why so many of us are so confused. You (Nik) have tested it and come up with results that say specific prepped objective doesn't matter and a programmer (Mike Wood) posting something that says prepped objective does. So, which is right? Has Nik found a bug? Is Mike giving us incorrect information (design change? mis-read the code? mis-remembering? fingers typing faster than his brain is running?)? Is Mike right and Nik's tests just happened to get results at one end of the bell curve?
AmiralLaurent
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RE: HQ influence

Post by AmiralLaurent »

Thanks to all of you
Halsey
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Halsey »

So where does that leave the Army HQ?

Corps HQ
Army HQ
Theatre Armies HQ

The HQ command is 3 tiered.

So only 2 of the 3 are beneficial to combat resolution?
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Mike Wood
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Mike Wood »

Hello...

There are only two kinds of HQ. Command HQ and Corps HQ. On the top right hand side of the unit pop-out box, the kind is listed, after the unit name. Subordination means nothing, as far as the bonus goes.

Corps HQ = Corps HQ
Army HQ = Command HQ (does not add to Theatre)
Theatre Armies HQ = Command HQ (does not add to Army)

Bye...

Michael Wood
ORIGINAL: Halsey

So where does that leave the Army HQ?

Corps HQ
Army HQ
Theatre Armies HQ

The HQ command is 3 tiered.

So only 2 of the 3 are beneficial to combat resolution?
Oldguard1970
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Oldguard1970 »

Thanks for all of the info.  I now have a better feel for what HQs will do in land combat. 
 
I also appreciate the fact that I cannot know or calculate all of the specific influences.  I can do things to improve my chances, but I cannot be sure.  Uncertainty is part of war.
 
 
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
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Nikademus
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

I just studied all sixty equations that use the corps and command headquarters values. I was correct. All offensive values must be prepared. Nick may have been talking about defensive values. Headquarters units may provide bonuses to units within range for defensive purposes, even if not prepared for those locations. Allow me to expand my explanation and include defensive values:

that may very well be it. Unlike Herr Wood....i can't look at the code..only observe what factors influence what in a controlled environment. Hence my attempt to explain it in two ways....either as a 'boost' of modified AV or removal of penalty on the modified AV. Mike just put it in more technical terms....there's "Offensive" values....and "Defensive" values so perhaps it is the "Defensive" bonus that i was seeing in observing the increase (or lack of decrease in some cases) in the final modified AV just by the're being an HQ in range of the LCU.

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ny59giants
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RE: HQ influence

Post by ny59giants »

Hypothetical situation in Australia.

The Allies launch an attack involving 3 LCU's from three different commands (ANZAC, Australia, and Southwest Pacific). Would only one command check to see if it meets these conditions or would each one?? If only one, which LCU would that be??
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dtravel
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RE: HQ influence

Post by dtravel »

Thank you for the info and helping to clear up the confusion, Mike.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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pompack
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RE: HQ influence

Post by pompack »

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Thank you for the info and helping to clear up the confusion, Mike.


ditto Mike [&o]

I at least tripled my knowledge of HQ effects without significantly adding to my confusion level: an extraordinary achievement [:)]

I have also increased my respect once again for any programmers forced to operate within a Systems Engineering disaster area [8|]
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dtravel
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RE: HQ influence

Post by dtravel »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Hypothetical situation in Australia.

The Allies launch an attack involving 3 LCU's from three different commands (ANZAC, Australia, and Southwest Pacific). Would only one command check to see if it meets these conditions or would each one?? If only one, which LCU would that be??
I don't think which 'Command' the units are assigned to has any effect as long as the units and HQs are on the same side (Allied/Japan). If there is an HQ of the same side within its command radius, it will make a roll to see if it assists.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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Halsey
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Halsey »

Thanks Mike.[&o]

Input, need more input.[;)]

So Theatre HQ's are only good to pull supplies and serve as a location for replacements to be pulled from.

Man, it only took two years to get this definitive answer.[:D]
Andvari
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Andvari »

If you Prepare all your HQs, especially for those using an invasion Task Force, there is the increased chance that the enemy will know where you're headed.
 
As an example, the Allies in my PBEM received this in their SIG INT REPORT FOR 12/28/41:
14th Army is planning for an attack on Rabaul.
 
Now if I don't prep in advance there is a greater chance the die roll will go against me in the attack. If I do prep, the Allies could receive a message like the one above, and be waiting for me.
 
I'm tempted not to prep for invasion TFs, and hope the odds are in my favor when I get there, rather than let him know where I'm headed with whom.
 
Thoughts?
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Mike Wood
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Mike Wood »

Hello...

No. Please try to understand:

Red Chinese Army, Command HQ
Attached To: China Command
Chinese Unit
Command Radius: 5

9th War Area, Command HQ
Attached To: China Command
Chinese Unit
Command Radius: 1

27th Army Group, Corps HQ
Attached To: China Command
Chinese Unit
Command Radius: 1

The first two headquarters listed are Command HQ and the third is a Corps HQ. It would seem that Red Chinese Army is a Theatre HQ, but there no such thing. It is a Command HQ.

Bye...

Michael Wood
ORIGINAL: Halsey

Thanks Mike.[&o]

Input, need more input.[;)]

So Theatre HQ's are only good to pull supplies and serve as a location for replacements to be pulled from.

Man, it only took two years to get this definitive answer.[:D]
Halsey
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RE: HQ influence

Post by Halsey »

Gotcha Mike.

Thanks a lot.[;)]
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dtravel
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RE: HQ influence

Post by dtravel »

ORIGINAL: Andvari

If you Prepare all your HQs, especially for those using an invasion Task Force, there is the increased chance that the enemy will know where you're headed.

As an example, the Allies in my PBEM received this in their SIG INT REPORT FOR 12/28/41:
14th Army is planning for an attack on Rabaul.

Now if I don't prep in advance there is a greater chance the die roll will go against me in the attack. If I do prep, the Allies could receive a message like the one above, and be waiting for me.

I'm tempted not to prep for invasion TFs, and hope the odds are in my favor when I get there, rather than let him know where I'm headed with whom.

Thoughts?
Well, let's see.

As the Allies, who cares? Japanese SigInt is so bad you don't worry about it. Prep those HQs! [:'(]

As the Japanese, if you're not attacking with such overwhelming force that it doesn't matter, then I suspect you probably shouldn't be attacking there. And part of that overwhelming force is coming from the HQ bonus. Of course, given that in the game the Japanese player knows how much better the Allied SigInt is, it cuts both ways. He can have units that are far to the rear and aren't going to be doing anything for a while prepping for objectives all over the place, possibly giving the Allies false information.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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donkey_roxor
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RE: HQ influence

Post by donkey_roxor »

Can this thread be put in the "must read" thread at the top?
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witpqs
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RE: HQ influence

Post by witpqs »

Thanks Mike. Can I ask - what about prep points for Air HQ's - do they matter at all? Is giving a target to an Air HQ even relevant?
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dtravel
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RE: HQ influence

Post by dtravel »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Thanks Mike. Can I ask - what about prep points for Air HQ's - do they matter at all? Is giving a target to an Air HQ even relevant?
If its prep level for where it currently is reaches 100, the Air HQ's experience level may increase thru "training". What effect that will have.... *shrug*
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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ny59giants
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RE: HQ influence

Post by ny59giants »

Its nice to go back and re-read threads of such importance as this one. The use and role of HQs seems to be overlooked in many games. 
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