For Liberty versus Birth of America

Hussar Games "For Liberty!" is a turn based game of the American Revolution and the Rakoczi Independence War. Command the armies of the newly born United States of America against Britain or the ill-equipped Hungarian rebels against mighty Austria. 1848 is a turn base game on the Hungarian rebellion against Austria in 1848-49.

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rowech
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For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by rowech »

I downloaded both demos and am leaning toward the BoA game. I'm curious if there's anyone who has tried both or even bought both and which one they liked better.
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dpstafford
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by dpstafford »

ORIGINAL: rowech

I downloaded both demos and am leaning toward the BoA game. I'm curious if there's anyone who has tried both or even bought both and which one they liked better.
Wow. No response.

I will throw in my 2 cents. I don't have Liberty, but I bought and played BoA before it was even available from Matrix (shipped from France).

I found it to be too "light". So very little going on. So few meaningful decisions for the player to make. (disclosure: my idea of a compelling game is a grognard title like War In The Pacific.....).

So I guess that means I would recommend the other one, For Liberty.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by James Ward »

I own For Liberty and tried the BoA demo. I liked both. The biggest differance is For Liberty is turned based and you can fight battles tactically if you like. BoA is a WEGO game with the computer resolving all battles. So it depends what you like.
I found the AI in For Liberty to be only OK, it did some really strange stuff and in tactical combat it wasn't very good but in hot seat the tactical battles are a blast. I don't think you can judge the AI from a demo but from what I read the AI in BoA is very challenging.
I think it depends on what type of game you like, WEGO or turn based.
rowech
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by rowech »

Can you tell me what WEGO is?  Last summer was the first I really got into any kind of military gaming, picking up a couple of boardgames.  With no opponents though, I'm looking to the computer route. 
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by James Ward »

WEGO means both sides plot their moves and then the turn is resolved.
rowech
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by rowech »

Okay...that makes sense...thanks.  Obvious plusses and minusses to both systems. 
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com »

I have played "For Liberty" quite a bit, and have only tried the demo of "Birth of America". I think that "For Liberty is an excellent game, with a decent to good AI, though (like all AI's) it makes some odd decisions and has the weakness of all AI's that it does not plan, but only reacts.

It appears to me that "For Liberty" and "Birth of America" are basically different types of games. "For Liberty" is an operational level wargame of moderate complexity with some strategic elements, and a tactical level wargame attached (there is an option to resolve battles automatically, but it produces odd and unpredictable results and is best used as a way to handicap the human player vs. the AI). From my limited experience, "Birth of America" appears to me to be mainly a stratagic level game with some operational elements, and no tactical features. As James Ward pointed out previously, "Birth of America" is simultaneous execution, as compared to "For Liberty which is sequential. Those who have played Birth of America extensively report that is is also an excellent game.

Overall, while I highly recommend "For Liberty", I think the decision comes down to what level of play and type of game you are looking for. My impression is that you can't go wrong with either.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by CptHowdy »

howdy rowech, i know ya from the DMB forums! going to echo what everyone else here has said. i own for liberty but dont think you can go wrong with either title.
rowech
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by rowech »

It seems like a tough call for me simply because, like I said, I haven't been into wargames long at all.  I bought Avalon Hill's 1776 game which I really liked and then a game called The Mighty Endeavour which I liked as well.  Both of them are turn-based games and it seems like For Liberty would be more like those.  Birth of America does seem to be a simpler game and perhaps one I should cut my teeth on. 
 
CptHowdy...what's your screen name on DMB?
CptHowdy
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by CptHowdy »

screenname at dmb is redsman1. from near cincy but lived in fairborn(close to dayton) a couple of years.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com »

Another difference between "For liberty", and "Birth of America" is that "For Liberty" is more similar to the "traditional" board wargames. It has hex based movement, and is much concerned with simulating the details of warfare in that period. It's meant to put the player in the role of a military commander, concerned with maneuver, combat, supply, leadership, morale, etc.

My impression of "Birth of America" (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the military aspects are more abstract. It has area movement, and more attention is paid to the economic, social and political aspects of leading a nation at war. The player is more like a head of state than a general, which also sounds like a lot of fun.

Perhaps you should buy both, and report back to us on how they compare! [:)] [:D] [;)]
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Jeff Sutro
rowech
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by rowech »

I've thought about buying both actually.  I need to find some more time to play with the demos more is what I need.  Always easier said than done when it comes to finding time. 
James Ward
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by James Ward »

Another thing to consider is that with For Liberty you get the Hungarian scenarios. I think with BOA you get the French Indians Wars so if either of them interest you, it might be the decider.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by michaelincolorado »

another thing to consider is support - BOA developers rank with the best - always on forums, very responsive, many upgrades/patches. Not to be mean but the developers of For Liberty are almost non-existent in the forums (go look at the posts or lack thereof), the game has languished - recent promises for a patch by end of April and announcement of new title have gone unfulfilled and un-addressed as to why the timelines weren't met and what is now going on.

Don't get me wrong - I like the game but the developers of both BOA and Forge of Freedom have raised the bar significantly in terms of ongoing support via updates, patches, new features, improved AI and daily presence on the boards. In all those categories For Liberty is doing quite poorly. Too bad, good game albeit rather weak follow through after the initial issue.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com »

I would contend that the support provided by Hussar Games has been excellent. In the first 4 months after the July 4, 2006 release of "for Liberty" they released 3 or 4 patches to a game that was quite clean (no major bugs) upon initial release. All these patches represented significant gameplay improvements, worked out after considerable input and discussion on the old (Battlefront) forum. The folks at Hussar Games were quite active and responsive on that forum. All of this can be verified by checking out the old forum at Battlefront, which is still in place (I just checked).

After the move to Matrix, the new (Matrix) forum was less active overall, but Hussar has still been quite responsive (check out the threads from October through January). In the last 3 months this forum has been almost moribund, so there has been very little that called for a response from Hussar. They have presumably been busy working on their next game (Napoleon in Italy?) but it is significant that they are about to release another patch to "For Liberty" even 10 months after the game first came out. It sounds like they are incorporating improvements made to the game engine while developing the new game, thereby upgrading "For Liberty" to the standard of the new game.

To me, that represents very good support. From what the previous poster stated it sounds like "Birth of America" also has excellent support. Perhaps we Americans (or at least some of our game companies) need to take a lesson from the French ("Birth of America") and the Hungarians ("For Liberty"). [:)] [X(] [;)]
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Hertston
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: jeffreys

My impression of "Birth of America" (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the military aspects are more abstract. It has area movement, and more attention is paid to the economic, social and political aspects of leading a nation at war. The player is more like a head of state than a general, which also sounds like a lot of fun.

You are wrong. It's pure wargame, with no economic, social and political aspects at all.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com »

You are wrong. It's pure wargame, with no economic, social and political aspects at all.

Thank you for the information. I stand corrected. [:)]
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by Roads »

ORIGINAL: rowech

It seems like a tough call for me simply because, like I said, I haven't been into wargames long at all. I bought Avalon Hill's 1776 game which I really liked and then a game called The Mighty Endeavour which I liked as well. Both of them are turn-based games and it seems like For Liberty would be more like those. Birth of America does seem to be a simpler game and perhaps one I should cut my teeth on.

Birth of America draws on 1776 and is (IMHO) almost a computer implementation of it. If you like the scale of 1776 (strategic) then that matches BoA. It doesn't have the tactical element of 1776 however.
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by showboat1 »

I bought my first non-1900's wargame last week, Forge of Freedom. The idea of musket warfare has caught my interest since then and I've been looking for something else. I, too, am torn as to which game to buy. I really enjoyed the For Liberty! demo and the 1848 add-on. However, how does For Liberty play out when not limited tot he SOuthern Theater like the Demo?
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RE: For Liberty versus Birth of America

Post by jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com »

However, how does For Liberty play out when not limited tot he Southern Theater like the Demo?

It broadens the scope somewhat. The British with their seapower are able (in the first few years of the game) to shift troops between theatres relatively quickly, which keeps the slower moving (because they are landbound) Americans hopping. Otherwise it plays much the same. If you like the demo and "1848", you'll probably like the full game.
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