Get the most out of your Direct Fire opportunities

[Capt. Pixel]

That leads me to an interesting question:

When a crew abandons their crew-served weapon (like a mortar for instance) and beats a hasty retreat, does the opponent get points for the abandoned weapon. Or do they have to actually 'Destroy' that weapon, either by direct fire (while still crewed) or by ending a turn sitting on the abandoned equipment?

Also, are points awarded to the opponent if you actually manage to get to the Retreat hex and leave the map?

Anybody know for sure?

[Losqualo]

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
...When a crew abandons their crew-served weapon (like a mortar for instance) and beats a hasty retreat, does the opponent get points for the abandoned weapon. Or do they have to actually 'Destroy' that weapon, either by direct fire (while still crewed) or by ending a turn sitting on the abandoned equipment?...

An abandoned weapon counts as a kill. I don't think the game engine makes a difference between true kills or "abandoned" kills regarding the points.

[Capt. Pixel]

So the preferred method would be to crew your weapon until it's shot out from underneath you. That way the opponent might only get the points for the destroyed weapon (assuming the crew is killed simultaneously). Not points for the weapon and ultimately the running crew too.

[returnfire]

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
So the preferred method would be to crew your weapon until it's shot out from underneath you. That way the opponent might only get the points for the destroyed weapon (assuming the crew is killed simultaneously). Not points for the weapon and ultimately the running crew too.

This reminds me of another question:
Does the opponent get the same number of points for (physically) "destroying a mortar with its crew intact" compared to "killing the crew witht the weapon intact" (the game engine will destroy the weapon when the number of men reaches 0, though)?

[Buzzard45]

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
That leads me to an interesting question:

When a crew abandons their crew-served weapon (like a mortar for instance) and beats a hasty retreat, does the opponent get points for the abandoned weapon. Or do they have to actually 'Destroy' that weapon, either by direct fire (while still crewed) or by ending a turn sitting on the abandoned equipment?

Also, are points awarded to the opponent if you actually manage to get to the Retreat hex and leave the map?

Anybody know for sure?

You must place an infantry unit in the hex for one turn (I don't know if it needs to be a complete turn,) for an abandoned piece of equipment to be destroyed and count towards victory points. A gun or vehicle destroyed in this manner is taken as the full points value and the crew is counted again if/when destroyed. You can watch this happen to yourself in the roster screens as damage. So one piece may contribute more to your opponents victory points than the initial cost of the unit. This is not dis-similar to AUX units being charged at 25% and then again when destroyed.

[rbrunsman]

My understanding, from the Forum long ago, is that you only get points for abandoned equipment if you "carry/hold the field" at the end of the battle. So, what this means is that if you've basically won the game, you'll win by more points than you otherwise would have. So, in theory, you could make a draw a minor victory, etc.

[Capt. Pixel]

You can 'Z' fire flamethrowers.

If you 'Z' fire a vehicular flamethrower into a mine hex, you can remove mines at a prodigious rate (4 to 6 a shot, on average). Some flamethrowing tanks (eg. JA SS Engr Tank and GE Flammenwagen/16 {v7.1 only}) have TWO flamethrowers. These babies can clear a 10 mine hex in two shots most of the time! (This also works against Wire and AT Obstacles)

Early year flamethrowing vehicles and all infantry flamethrowers are not capable in this task. The flamethrower must have a warhead of 20 to accomplish this.

[Capt. Pixel]

This one gets me killed regularly.

Enemy OpFire can be prompted by firing a unit that has a fixed fire arc when attempting to fire outside that arc. (eg. bunkers, immobilized turretless units, etc)

Your unit won't actually fire outside the fixed arc, but enemy units might very well return OpFire anyway. Many units are tricky this way (StuGs in particular).

For instance, a vehicle's secondary AAA weapon will not fire outside the main weapon's fire arc if that vehicle is immobilized. (I don't know why. You'd think it should be able to. ) The catch is that you'll still get a targetting reticule and be allowed to fire. But the only effect is to get shot at in return. :rolleyes:

[Buzzard45]

OP fire can be used up with jeeps and trucks and other such low cost units but it is best to get them moving quickly before exposing them to enemy fire. If you run them straight over the crest of the hill to be shot at, they will likely be killed right away. If you run them back and forth to get their speed up to say, ten MPH then they have a chance of surviving that first OP fire which is likely the most accurate one.

Never move the same cannon fodder target twice in a row. Bring up a second target to be shot at to negate the second shot bonus. Make sure it is also moving quickly before it is exposed to fire.

Remeber the two hex proximity for special OP fire or point blank Op fire. Even if you have used up an enemy's normal OP fire, it can special OP fire on any target that comes within the two hex limit. Unless of course you have blasted the begger insestantly form 4 hexes away and its now so buttoned that it can't see anything you do.

[Procrustes]

Hi,

Great tips! Here's one I've found....

You can greatly increase your chances of op firing on an enemy unit if you make sure they are targetted in your turn. I mean, either take a shot at them or using the targetting icon to make sure you have aquired the target. If the opposing unit fires in their turn, chances are you will fire back with most of the units you pre-targetted with. The best part is that this seems to work when you target hexes where you know unspotted units are. I mean, an AT gun keeps firing at you - you can spot it during the opponents turn, but by the time it is your turn it is unspotted again. Move as many units up as you can and 'Z' fire or target the hex. If he fires next turn, chances are you will open up with a whole lot more opfire than he expected.

One funny thing regarding targetting - destroyed and abandoned vehicles/weapons will remain targetted, so before you just hit "F" you might want to make sure the target is still viable.

Also, regarding "persistant fire" - I've found that while it initially gets a lot harder to cause casualties after a unit has been "pinned" - their supression keeps increasing so that either they won't rally again or eventually they break. At the end of my turn, I tend to empty all the spotted MG's,etc I have into whatever targets are left around that aren't getting me shot back at - figure it just helps.

[Vathailos]

Two quick comments and a question, now that this post is once again active.

1) Thanks for the “heads up” on what it takes to increase your OP-fire. I didn’t know that before, and that must be what Viking does. I swear, the enemy could run in columns at my hidden units, shouting through megaphones, with strobe lights on them, and my troops wouldn’t OP-fire. I move a sniper set to defend and range zero 2 hexes and a 3” AT gun 12 hexes away spots and engages him.

2) I believe the point at which a vehicle will explode from non-penetrating hits may have something to do with ALL of the “Vulnerable Location”s being hit. For example, radio masts broken, gun optics gone, tool box shot to bits, on and on… Once the computer can no longer find an area on the vehicle to apply a “critical hit”, it may well apply them to the vehicle itself. I do also know that once the last crewman is killed in a vehicle, it’ll explode (at least my observations seem to bear that one out).

And now the question:

If I’m not mistaken, having a recon team ride on a vehicle allows that recon asset to spot from that vehicle. In other words, when a 2-man scout team is riding on an M-4 for example, the M-4 gains their “recon” bonus when spotting. Is this correct?


EDIT[/I}:

OK, I wasn’t quite honest, I thought of one more addition, so it’s THREE comments and ONE question

A tip on keeping hidden for MGs especially. Turn off that damned little rifle! My DshK 12.7mm HMGs can now fire somewhat inconspicuously with the rifles turned off. Same with MG 42s, etc. When the enemy’s close, or once you’re spotted, you might want to flip them back on.

I’m sure many of you already do this, but just thought I’d share it for other “n00bs” like me.

[Procrustes]

Hi,

I'm guessing here, but my feeling has been that when you mount infantry/recon on a tank the spotting from that infantry/recon isn't really good because the tank is moving fast. (You get much better recon out of your recon units if they don't move more than a couple of hexes.) Too many times I've just had the recon shot off the tank by a unit I didn't spot. My strategy has been to drop the recon off a hex or two before I stop the tank - it gives them a chance to survive and spot any fire the tank takes on the next turn. Also they can move a hex or two and remount the tank on the next turn if need be. More than anything I try not to let the tanks get ahead of my infantry - if I can use the recon as leg units before I send the tank out I do. (Drive the recon up to a hex that isn't spotted, dismount and wait. Next turn, move your recon out into the open where you want your tank to go. If it doen'st take any fire, and you don't spot anything nasty, follow up with your tank, pick up the recon, and drive across the open to the next hidden spot.) I tend to do this stuff with my half-track infantry as well - if your halftrack has to get shot-up, it's better if your infantry squads are in a nearby hex. If one takes fire, then the half-tracks can respond with their MG's from a different hex than the infantry fires from.

Your tip about turning the rifle off on the MG's is a good one, I'll have to start using that. As someone else already mentioned, I almost always turn the rifles on my AT guns off.

Your guess about critical hits on the tanks makes sense to me.

[Vathailos]

One word of caution in dropping units off moving vehicles. When you drop a unit out of a HT, for example, it will retain the movement speed of the vehicle at the time at which it was dropped off. I've seen AT guns dropped by their fast-moving HTs get hit by my MGs and take heavy losses.

I think MGs (and possibly other weapons as well) get bonuses based on how fast the infantry target is running/moving. If they're moving at 21mph because of a HT drop-off, they may be in a world of hurt.

I fear dropping them then moving any vehicle forward of them unaccompanied because of my own prior experiences. Someone wrote somewhere on the board (and I laughed out loud when I read it) that "when you're considering moving that tank one last hex, don't!!!".

Oh is that EVER true.

[Procrustes]

Hi,

You're right - "speed kills" as Cpt. Pixel said. And you are right about moving that last hex. The thing is that too many times I haven't dropped them off, and then when the tank gets fired on they are either killed or too supressed to be any good. If they get dropped in a nearby hex, there is a good chance that the tank will attract the op fire (and hopefully survive) and that the leg unit will (hopefully) spot where the fire is coming from. I guess a lot of this would depend on what kind of fire you are expecting to take, too. No sense leaving your leg unit with the tank if you think there are AT guns out there, and no sense dismounting your infantry from a HT if you think you are facing only other infantry or MMG's. Also, infantry are better left in a HT during a bombardment - if the HT gets hit they are hurt, but otherwise they do a lot better.

Also, I seem to have pretty good luck knocking tank riders off their tanks with some long-distance MG fire - even get casualties quite often. I am not convinced that being moving and mounted is any better than being moving and dismounted.

If I can, I like to end my movement unspotted. If I can't do that - like when I'm making a charge - then I try to leave a whole bunch of units out in the open scattered in different hexes, hopefully able to spot and cover for each other. Terribly bloody, but I haven't found a better way. I really hate desert battles - this is where I have to do this stuff a lot.

Hope this stuff makes sense. I know I'm not the biggest pro here - I will appreciate any feedback that is offered on these ideas.

Thanks,

P.

[Irinami]

Infantry riders, when dismounted, will be moving faster than the vehicle was due to the way infantry speeds are handled. That's nice to you when you can spot the enemy doing that, because as the manual states, the faster infantry is moving the more vulnerable it is. Which leads to...

Mines!! Do a defensive scenario, and deploy well behind the start line. We're talking 5-10 hexes. Put mines 2 hexes in front of your units, and make it 3-deep of 20-point mine hexes. This gives the enemy a long leadup to build up speed (which makes them less likely to spot mines and more likely to hit them), but also gives them "6 hexes" of mines to have to cross--they WILL eventually set them off. Also, set your units' opfire to 0. End your turn. Actually, make it 2-player, and you control the other side. Ladeedaa, move some infantry (even cavalry!) over the mines. KABOOM!! Now check their speed.

In the Long WWII I've been playing off and on, I've set up minefields and seen enemy infantry moving at 150mph!!:eek: That gives me at least 2 casualties when I fire with an MG and hit. Then they might flee, hit another mine, and be back up to a good 90mph... for another burst, muwahahaha!

[Buzzard45]

Infantry riders, when dismounted, will be moving faster than the vehicle was due to the way infantry speeds are handled. That's nice to you when you can spot the enemy doing that, because as the manual states, the faster infantry is moving the more vulnerable it is.

Why is that? Vehicles are less volnerable when moving fast but infantry, running, are more vulnerable.

Hey boys!!! Walk don't run you might get hit if you run.



I can see the just unloaded from a truck and milling around and getting shot scenario but 150 MPH? What's up with that?

[Irinami]

Why is that? Vehicles are less volnerable when moving fast but infantry, running, are more vulnerable.

Hey boys!!! Walk don't run you might get hit if you run.



I can see the just unloaded from a truck and milling around and getting shot scenario but 150 MPH? What's up with that?

Here's the deal. A vehicle moving at ALL is harder to hit than a vehicle standing still. Plus, larger vehicles appear to be moving slower than they actually are. Also, unless one knows about the vehicle in question, one (eg, a US grunt) does not know how fast or slow the vehicle (say, a Panzer III) can move or accellerate. So it's harder to hit a moving vehicle.

What about people? Well, the idea here is that a person can hide behind a bush, a tree, a telephone pole (well, depending on how far away you are), in a ditch, a crater, etc. BUT!! Only if you've got the time to get in the ditch/etc. At my best, I ran a 10-second 55m hurdle. That's about like running through the forest. BUT, if I wanted to hide behind each of those hurdles before moving to the next... well, I could take about 5 minutes if I were being really careful... say moving at a speed of about...

1 hex per turn.

Get it? The faster a soldier is moving, the less time he's taking to pick cover and get into cover, which means the more time he's spending OUT of said cover. Since he can't move very fast (as compared to, say, a jeep), the benefits of his moving quickly are outweighed by the detriments of his being a soft, fleshy target in the open.

Make better sense?

Oh... BTW... I think the 150mph is in a circle, with arms in the air, shrieking.

[General Turgidson]

Great tips. I've found that setting crewed weapons-MGs, AT guns, IGs etc... dug in on elevations higher than the approaching enemy units(the higher the better), and set at "0" range, score more hits when they fire-especially if the approaching units have already been observed by the units dug in. Approaching enemy infantry, if in open terrain, suffers greatly when exposed to fire from MGs at high elevations>15+. AVs taking fire from AT guns at 15+ suffer like effects if at 0 elevation. Another thing I've noticed is that AAA seems more effective if put at elevation. A question I have is for you more experienced players is if you set your AAA at 0, does it restrict its range at which it will engage enemy aircraft? What is the best way to deploy AAA units to umbrella your deployment? Is it correct to assume by placing AAA in front of your units they'll be engaged before they begin laying their ugly eggs. Advice welcome.