"Super PTs" in mixed TF?

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Dive Bomber1
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"Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Dive Bomber1 »

In AuTiger's new AAR it was mentioned that he and his opponent agreed to not include PTs in surface combat TFs with other ships types because the PTs are supposed to become "super" PTs or something like that.

That is the first that I've heard of that, and I was wondering if that is common knowledge, and if so, are there any examples that I can read in the AARs or elsewhere in the Forum?

I've read posts about banning "giant" PT TFs (like 30 or more PTs in one TF), but I can't remember anything about PTs becoming super-killers when mixed with other types of ships.

Any help or leads would be appreciated.

Thanks -
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niceguy2005
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by niceguy2005 »

This does not seem realistic to me. PTs generally operated independently from other ships. For starters they are not intended for sustained combat. They are supposed to dash in, shoot their Torps and dash out again.
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KDonovan
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by KDonovan »

by combining non-PT boats (ie PG, MSW's) with PT boats, opposing forces will concentrate fire on the PG and MSW's ignoring the bigger threat of torp loaded PT boats screaming at them
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Dive Bomber1
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Dive Bomber1 »

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

by combining non-PT boats (ie PG, MSW's) with PT boats, opposing forces will concentrate fire on the PG and MSW's ignoring the bigger threat of torp loaded PT boats screaming at them

Oh, I didn't realize that. It seemed to make sense to me that if you only had a PG, a PC and a PT in a base you would put them together in a TF to try to defend it.

Why do the opposing forces focus on the larger ships?

Thanks again -
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ctangus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by ctangus »

I've read that they will draw air attacks in favor of more valuable targets. IRL, What self-respecting Kate pilot would try to torpedo a PT boat when there's a CA a few thousand yards away? (For that matter, how could you put a torp into a boat that small, fast & maneuverable?)

I suspect, but don't know for sure, that they'd have a similar effect in surface combat - e.g. drawing a disproportionate amount of fire. I don't know for sure as I don't use them in TFs with other combatants. I'll occassionally put them in a TF with an AK or AGP when I want to transfer them to a base they don't have the legs to reach on their own, but once they arrive I put them in their own dedicated TF.
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by niceguy2005 »

ORIGINAL: Dive Bomber1

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

by combining non-PT boats (ie PG, MSW's) with PT boats, opposing forces will concentrate fire on the PG and MSW's ignoring the bigger threat of torp loaded PT boats screaming at them

Oh, I didn't realize that. It seemed to make sense to me that if you only had a PG, a PC and a PT in a base you would put them together in a TF to try to defend it.

Why do the opposing forces focus on the larger ships?

Thanks again -
In RL, not really, you would be asking the PT boat to make a torpedo run at 12 knotts, instead of 35knotts. The PT would attack, or run. and the PG or MSW might also make a stand.
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Dive Bomber1
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Dive Bomber1 »

ORIGINAL: ctangus

I've read that they will draw air attacks in favor of more valuable targets. IRL, What self-respecting Kate pilot would try to torpedo a PT boat when there's a CA a few thousand yards away? (For that matter, how could you put a torp into a boat that small, fast & maneuverable?)

I suspect, but don't know for sure, that they'd have a similar effect in surface combat - e.g. drawing a disproportionate amount of fire. I don't know for sure as I don't use them in TFs with other combatants. I'll occassionally put them in a TF with an AK or AGP when I want to transfer them to a base they don't have the legs to reach on their own, but once they arrive I put them in their own dedicated TF.

Hmmm - they must behave very much differently in mixed TFs, because by themselves aircraft won't attack them unless the attack is at 100 feet.

Thanks -
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Dive Bomber1 »

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Dive Bomber1

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

by combining non-PT boats (ie PG, MSW's) with PT boats, opposing forces will concentrate fire on the PG and MSW's ignoring the bigger threat of torp loaded PT boats screaming at them

Oh, I didn't realize that. It seemed to make sense to me that if you only had a PG, a PC and a PT in a base you would put them together in a TF to try to defend it.

Why do the opposing forces focus on the larger ships?

Thanks again -
In RL, not really, you would be asking the PT boat to make a torpedo run at 12 knotts, instead of 35knotts. The PT would attack, or run. and the PG or MSW might also make a stand.

Ah, good point. I didn't think of that. I tend not to mix them because their short range really slows down a TF because they need refueling so often.

Thanks -
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Nikademus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Nikademus »

There's nothing more amusing than watching a G4M "torpedo" a PT in a mixed TF........
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Terminus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Terminus »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

There's nothing more amusing than watching a G4M "torpedo" a PT in a mixed TF........

Doesn't take much to amuse you, apparently...[:'(][;)]
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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Nikademus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Nikademus »

nope.......

jackass II was an awesome movie.

[:D]
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Terminus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Terminus »

[8|]
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Speedysteve »

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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by spence »

In RL, not really, you would be asking the PT boat to make a torpedo run at 12 knotts, instead of 35knotts. The PT would attack, or run. and the PG or MSW might also make a stand.
 
"They Were Expendable" and prewar ideas aside; PT skippers learned that idling along at bare steerageway prior to launch was the best way to remain undetected (and hence alive - see some other thread where it was noted that in the whole war the IJN "targets" only killed 7 PTs).  The high speed was used for retirement once the torps were off and running.
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Ron Saueracker
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Ron Saueracker »

Being able to torp a PT with a Betty/Nell, or any aircraft/or ship/sub platform should open everyones eyes about the incredibly over generous nature of torpedo/bomb accuracy as it is currently modelled.
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by pauk »



Sorry Ron, the whole problem with that is game engine which allows Betty/Nells to attack PTs with torpedo when they are mixed with other ship classes... even when they are set on the normal, lets say 6000 altitude....so, here is an easy fix: do not mix PTs with other ship class(es) and you won't get such wierd results like Japanese LBA torpedoed and sunk a "precious" PT while avoiding to attack DD, CA or other useless ships....[;)]

in my book this is a clear exploit and one of the most gamey moves.....
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by AHFlattop »

I always find it humorous when in my current game, at Port Moesby, a lone PT boat takes 37 bomb hits and 10 out of 34 AKs and APs only take 1-3 bomb hits apiece....
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Xargun »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

There's nothing more amusing than watching a G4M "torpedo" a PT in a mixed TF........

That, my friend, depends on which side you are on [:D]

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Nikademus
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by Nikademus »

and who the opponent is...... [:D]
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RE: "Super PTs" in mixed TF?

Post by jwilkerson »

I actually found that fighting Betty's against PTs is not cost effective ... the PTs shoot down the Betty's faster than the Betty's machine gun up, the PTs .. well this was in '43 ...

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