Russian Far East Forces in WitP

[Bliztk]

In WitP the forces available to the Far East Command are roughly the same at the start of the war.

21 Inf Divs
1 Cav Div
4 Inf Bdes
1 Para Bde
2 Mot Bdes
3 Tank Bdes

I have stumbled reading Colossus Reborn from Glantz, that even with the massive transfers westward, the Far East Forces actually increased in number.

Quoting pg 155:

"When Barbarrossa started strength in Far East stood at 32 divisional equivalents. Between July and November 1941, the STAVKA recalled 12 divisions westward from Far East and Trans-Baikal Districts, nevertheless the massive ongoing mobilization still kept Red Army strength in the Far East at a level of 39 division equivalents. Despite transferring an additional 23 divisions and 19 brigades westward in 1942 the STAVKA increased Red Army strength in the Far East to 46 division equivalents by 19 November 1942.

By the summer of 1943 all transfer of forces westward ended abruptly…. By July 43 the strength and combat capability of fronts in the Far East had increased to 45.5 divisions. Nor this trend changed. By 1 Jan 1944 Red Army strength in the Far East and Trans-Baikal region had reached 55 division Equivalents."

Quoting Companion to Colossus Reborn

1 Jan 42
Far East Front

19 Rifle Divisions, 2 Rifle Brigades, 1 Rifle Regiment, 1 Airborne Bde, 1 Calvary Div, 2 Cavalry Regiments

17 Artillery Regiments, 4 Artillery Bn, 2 Mortar Bn, 11 AA Bn

2 Tank Divisions, 6 Tank Bde, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Motorcycle Bde, 4 Armoured Trains

1 July 42
Far East Front

22 Rifle Divisions, 12 Rifle Brigades, 1 Rifle Regiment, 1 Airborne Bde, 2 Calvary Div, 2 Cavalry Regiments

52 Artillery Regiments, 4 Artillery Bn, 6 Mortar Rgts, 12 AA Bn 1 Guards Mortar Regiment

15 Tank Bde, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Motorcycle Bde, 6 Armoured Trains, 5 Tank Bn

1 February 43
Far East Front

14 Rifle Divisions, 23 Rifle Brigades, 3 Rifle Regiment, 1 Airborne Bde, 2 Cavalry Regiments

56 Artillery Regiments, 1 Tank Destroyer Regiment, 5Artillery Bn, 5 Mortar Rgts, 14 AA Bn 1 Guards Mortar Regiment

17 Tank Bdes, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Motorcycle Regiment, 8 Armoured Trains, 11 Tank Bn


1 July 43
Far East Front

14 Rifle Divisions, 23 Rifle Brigades, 3 Rifle Regiment, 1 Airborne Bde, 2 Cavalry Divisions

41 Artillery Regiments, 12 Tank Destroyer Regiment, 5Artillery Bn, 16 Mortar Rgts, 6 AA Divisions, 20 AA Bn 1 Guards Mortar Regiment

20 Tank Bdes, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Motorcycle Regiment, 8 Armoured Trains

31 December 43
Far East Front

19 Rifle Divisions, 23 Rifle Brigades, 7 Rifle Regiment, 1 Airborne Bde, 1 Cavalry Division

41 Artillery Regiments, 13 Tank Destroyer Regiment, 7Artillery Bn, 14 Mortar Rgts, 6 AA Divisions, 16 AA Bn 1 Guards Mortar Regiment

20 Tank Bdes, 1 Mechanized Bde, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Motorcycle Regiment, 1 Tank Bn, 8 Armoured Trains

In Witp until May 1945, there are no reinforcements to the Far East Russian Army, thus grossly underrepresenting the actual capacities of the Soviet Union in the Far East.

I know the problem: Slots, but I was thinking about using the existing slots to represent Rifle Corps instead of Rifle Divisions, Tank Corps instead of Tank Bdes, and artillery divisions, instead of Artillery Bns, thus having roughly the same slot count and giving the Russians the boost that they had in the actual war.

Most of those slots would start disabled or with a cadre, thus when the unit receives reinforcements, the experience lowers, thus simulating the recently raised formations

Any comments ?

[el cid again]

Many units will be upgraded in just this way - secretly as it were - by invisible code - about June 1945.

[Bliztk]

Yes, but in the period between 1 Jan 42 and 1 June 45 the Far East Forces are underrepresented.

For example in 1 July 42 Red Army is missing:

3 Rifle Divs, 10 Rifle Bdes, 1 Calvary Div

35 Artillery Regiments, 4 Mortar Bns
12 Tank Bdes, 5 Tank Bns

That`s a LOT of missing firepower. The problem is slots, I know. But using Rifle Corps instead of Rifle Divs and Tank Corps instead of Tank Bdes can solve this problem

[Bliztk]

For example 1st Red Banner Army had in 1st Jan 42:

26th Rifle Corps with 22nd, 59th, Grodekova Rifle Divisions,
59 Rifle Corps with 39th and Spaask Rifle divisions

2nd (Ussuriisk) Tank Division, 75th,77th Tank Bdes, Motorized Rifle Bde, 3rd, 5th Armored Trains

5 Rifle Divs
1 Tank Div, 2 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rifle Bde, 2 Trains

On 1st July that becomes:

5th Rifle Corps with 246th and 248th Rifle Bdes,
26th Rifle Corps with 22nd, 59th, 87th Rifle Divs,
59th Rifle Corps with 39th and 98th Rifle Divisions,

18th Calvary Corps 7th, 8th Calvary Divisions, 246 Calvary Regiment

187th Rifle Division

75th, 77th, 204th, 208th, 209th, 210th Tank Bdes, 263th Motorized Rifle Bde, 442Tank Bn, 3rd, 78th Armoured Trains

2 Rifle Bdes, 6 Rifle Divs, 2 Calvary Divs, 1 Calvary Rgt
6 Tank Bdes, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Tank Bn, 2 Armoured Trains

1st February 43

5th Rifle Corps 95th, 246th Rifle Bde
26th Rifle Corps 22nd, 59th Rifle Divs
59th Rifle Corps 39 Rifle Div, 12nd, 29th Rifle Bdes
187th Rifle Div
18th Calvary Corps (246th Cavalry Regiment, 185th Motorized Rgt

75th, 77th, 204th, 208th, 209th 210th Tank Bdes, 42nd Motorized Rifle Bde, 442nd, 670th, 671st, 675thTank Bns, 3rd, 78th Armoured Trains Bn, 69th AA Train

4 Rifle Divs, 4 Rifle Bdes, 1 Cav Rgt, 1 Mot Rgt
6 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rifle Bde, 4 Tank Bns, 2 Armoured Trains, 1 AA Train

Thus comparing the strengths

Jan 42

5 Rifle Divs
1 Tank Div, 2 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rifle Bde, 2 Trains

Jul 42
2 Rifle Bdes, 6 Rifle Divs, 2 Calvary Divs, 1 Calvary Rgt
6 Tank Bdes, 1 Motorized Rifle Bde, 1 Tank Bn, 2 Armoured Trains

Feb 43
4 Rifle Divs, 4 Rifle Bdes, 1 Cav Rgt, 1 Mot Rgt
6 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rifle Bde, 4 Tank Bns, 2 Armoured Trains, 1 AA Train

We can see that althrough the components rotated, the strength slowly increased in infantry forces, and Tank forces

[Bliztk]

25th Army

1st Jan 42
 
39th Rifle Corps 40th, 105th, 208th Rifle Divs
Voroshilov and Poltava Rifle Divs
Coastal Calvary Div
72nd, 76th Tank Bde, 9th Armoured Train

5 Rifle Divs, 1 Cav Div, 2 Tk Bde 1 Arm Train

1st July 42

39th Rifle Corps 40th, 105th 126th, 208th Rifle Divs, 247th 253th Rifle Bde
190th Rifle Div
261st, 262nd Rifle Bdes
247th Calvary Regiment

72nd, 76th Tank Bdes, 302 Tank Bn, 9th Armoured Train Bn, 23rd 62nd Armoured Trains


5 Rifle Divs, 4 Rifle Bdes, 1 Cav Rgt, 2 Tk Bde 1 Arm Train Bn 2 Arm Train

1st February 43

17th Rifle Corps 190 Rifle Div, 261st, 262nd Rifle Bde
39th Rifle Corps 40th 105th Rifle Div, 6th,8th,21st,158th,247th Rifle Bdes
175th Destroyer Regiment
247th Calvary Regiment
84th, 86th MG Bn

72nd,76th,218th Tank Bdes, 302nd, 382nd Tank Bns, 9 Armoured Train Bn, 23rd, 62nd AA Trains


3 Rifle Divs, 7 Rifle Bdes, 1 Cav Rgt, 1 Destroyer Rgt, 3 Tk Bdes, 2 Tank Bns 1 Arm Train bn, 2 AA Trains

[Bliztk]

35th Army

1st Jan 42
35th 66th Rifle Divs
Amur Rifle Rgt
29th Motocycle Rgt

2 Divs, 1 Rgt 1 Mot Rgt

1st July 42
35th, 66th, 422nd Rifle Divs
125th, 172nd Tank Bdes
29th Motocycle Rgt
13th Armoured Train Bn, 53rd, 61st Armoured Trains

3 Rifle Divs, 2 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rgt, 1 Arm Train Bn, 2 AA Trains

1st Feb 43
35th 66th Rifle Divs
30th Rifle Bde
125th, 172th Tank Bdes
29th Motocycle Rgt
13th Armoured Train Bn, 53rd, 61st AA Trains

2 Rifle Divs, 1 Rifle Bde, 2 Tank Bdes, 1 Mot Rgt, 1 Arm Train 2 AA Trains

[Bliztk]

2nd Red Banner Army

1st Jan 42

3rd, 12th, 204th Rifle Divs
73rd 74th Tank Bdes
2nd Armoured Train Bn

3 Rifle Divs
2 Tank Bdes
1 Armoured Train Bn

1st July 42

3rd, 12th, 96th, 204th Rifle Divs
285th, 259th Rifle Bdes
73rd 74th Tank Bdes
2nd, 5th Armoured Train Bn
24th Armoured Train

4 Rifle Divs
2 Rifle Bdes
2 Tank Bdes
2 Armoured Train Bns
1 Armoured Train

1st Feb 43

3rd, 12th  Rifle Divs
17th, 41st, 258th, 259th Rifle Bdes
135th MGA Bn

73rd, 74th Tank Bde
672nd, 673rd, 674th, 676th Tank Bn
2nd ArTr Bn, 5th Armoured Train

2 Rifle Divs, 4 Rifle Bdes, 2 Tank Bdes, 4 Tank Bns, 1 ArTr Bn, 1 Arm Tr

[Bliztk]

15th Army

1st Jan 42

34th Rifle Div
1st (Amur) Tank Div
Viaz`ma Armoured Train

1 Rifle Div, 1 Tank Div, 1 Train

1st July 42

34th Rifle Div, 250th, 260th Rifle Bdes
165th,171st Tank Bdes
14th, 59th Armoured Trains

1 Rifle Div, 2 Rifle Bdes, 2 Tank Bdes, 2 Trains

1st February 43

34th Rifle Div, 38th, 260th Rifle Bdes
165th,171st Tank Bdes
677th Tank Bn
77th Armoured Train Bn, 59th AA Train

1 Rifle Div, 2 Rifle Bdes, 2 Tank Bdes, 1 Tank Bn 1 Armoured Train, 1 AA Train

[Bliztk]

Front Reserves

1st Jan 42

Special Rifle Corps 79th 101st Rifle Divs, Sakhalin Rifle Bde
205 Rifle Div
2nd Rilfe Bde
202nd Airborne Bde
13th Armoured Train

3 Rifle Divs
2 Rifle Bdes
1 Airborne Bde
1 Armoured Train

1st July 42

Special Rifle Corps 79th, 101st Rifle Divs Sakhalin Rifle Bde, 302nd Rifle Rgt
205th Rifle Div, 2nd Rifle Bde,
202nd Airborne Bde
203rd Tank Bde, Viaz`ma Armoured Train

3 Rifle Divs
2 Rifle Bdes
1 Rifle Rgt
1 Airborne Bde
1 Tank Bde, 1 Armoured Train

1st Feb 43
Special Rifle Corps 79th, 101st Rifle Divs 2nd 5th Rifle Bdes, 302nd, 540th Rifle Rgt, 5th,6th,206th Rifle Bn
18th, 88th, 113rd Rifle Bdes
202nd Airborne Bde
203rd, 214th Tank Bdes, 76th Armoured Train Bn

2 Rifle Divs
5 Rifle Bdes
2 Rifle Rgt
3 Rifle Bn
1 Airborne Bde
2 Tank Bdes, 1 Armoured Train

[Bliztk]

The actual WitP OOB is short in forces for the Russians:

Witp (Dec41-May45)
21 Inf Divs
1 Cav Div
4 Inf Bdes
3 Tank Bde

Jan 42
19 Rifle Divs
2 Rifle Bdes
2 Tank Divs
6 Tank Bdes

July42
22 Rifle Divs
12 Rifle Bdes
15 Tank Bdes
5 Tank Bns

Feb 43
14 Rifle Divs
23 Rifle Bdes
17 Tank Bdes
11 Tank Bns

Plus support, Artillery and AA forces.

In the critical period between Jan42 and Feb43 the Russian Far East forces are underrepresented by more or less a deviation of 20% in infantry and in armoured forces by 400% in Jan42 530% in July42 and 700% in Feb43

[treespider]

Blitzk typed:

I know the problem: Slots, but I was thinking about using the existing slots to represent Rifle Corps instead of Rifle Divisions, Tank Corps instead of Tank Bdes, and artillery divisions, instead of Artillery Bns, thus having roughly the same slot count and giving the Russians the boost that they had in the actual war.

Most of those slots would start disabled or with a cadre, thus when the unit receives reinforcements, the experience lowers, thus simulating the recently raised formations

Any comments ?

I had composed a similar Orbat for the Russians about a year ago. If i can find it i I can even tell you which slots upgrade to corps and when so you can plug the new corps into slots that will upgrade to themselves...if that makes any sense...

[treespider]

Code: Select all

Slot		Date		Unit Name		Location		Notes		August Storm
 2164		2-Jun		2nd Rifle Corps		Borzya				Assigned to 36th Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2165		3-Jun		86th Rifle Corps		Borzya				Assigned to 36th Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2166		4-Jun		5th Gds Rifle Corps		Tamsag		listed on mouse over at Borzya		Assigned to 39th Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2167		5-Jun		94th Rifle Corps		Tamsag		listed on mouse over at Borzya		Assigned to 39th Army trans Baikal Front
 2168		6-Jun		113th Rifle Corps		Tamsag		listed on mouse over at Skovordino		Assigned to 39th Army Trans Baikal Front
 2170		7-Jun		3rd Gd Artillery Division		Tamsag		listed on mouse over at Borzya		Assigned to 39th Army trans Baikal Front
 2171		8-Jun		6th Gd Artillery Division		Tamsag				Assigned to 39th Army trans Baikal Front
 2186		9-Jun		18th Gds Rifle Corps		Choybalisan		not represented on map by unit icon		Assigned to 53rd Army Trans Baikal Front
 2187		10-Jun		49th Rifle Corps		Choybalisan		not represented on map by unit icon		Assigned to 53rd Army Trans Baikal Front
 2188		11-Jun		57th Rifle Corps		Choybalisan		not represented on map by unit icon		Assigned to 53rd Army Trans Baikal Front
 2182		12-Jun		5th Gd Tank Corps		Tamsag				Assigned to 6th Guards Tank Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2183		13-Jun		9th Gd Mech Corps		Tamsag				Assigned to 6th Guards Tank Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2184		14-Jun		7th Gd Mech Corps		Tamsag				Assigned to 6th Guards Tank Army, Trans Baikal Front
 2185		15-Jun		3rd Gd Mech Corps		Tamsag				Assigned to Trans Baikal Front Forces
 2189		16-Jun		56th Rifle Corps		Skovordino				Assigned to 16th Army, 2nd far Eastern Front
 2190		17-Jun		5th Rifle Corps		Kuysyshevka				Assigned to 2nd Far eastern Front Forces
 2191		18-Jun		26th Rifle Corps		Imam		listed on mouse over at 68,31		Assigned to 1st Red Banner Army, 1st Far eastern Front
 2192		19-Jun		59th Rifle Corps		Imam		listed on mouse over at 68,31		Assigned to 1st Red Banner Army, 1st Far eastern Front
 2193		20-Jun		17th Rifle Corps		Suchan		listed on mouse over at Imam		Assigned to 5th Army, 1st Far eastern Front
 2198		21-Jun		45th Rifle Corps		Suchan		listed on mouse over outside of Vlad		Assigned to 5th Army, 1st Far Eastern Front
 2212		22-Jun		65th Rifle Corps		Suchan		listed on mouse over at Khabarovsk		Assigned to 5th Army, 1st Far eastern Front
 2216		23-Jun		72nd Rifle Corps		Suchan				Assigned to 5th Army, 1st Far eastern Front
 2217		24-Jun		39th Rifle Corps		Vladivostok				Assigned to 25th Army, 1st Far Eastern Front
 2218		25-Jun		87th Rifle Corps		Khabarovsk				Assigned to 1st Far Eastern Front Forces
 2219		26-Jun		88th Rifle Corps		Khabarovsk				Assigned to 1st Far Eastern Front Forces
 2201		27-Jun		10th Mech Corps		Suchan		listed on mouse over at Blago.		Assigned to 1st Far Eastern Front Forces
 2226		28-Jun		5th Army Art Div		Suchan		listed on mouse over at Vlad.		Not listed in August Storm, although 5th Army has a strong Artillery component
 2227		29-Jun		1st Banner Army Artillery Division		Imam		listed on mouse over at Suchan		See 5th Army Art Div
 2206		30-Jun		15th Army Artillery Division		Kuysyshevka		listed on mouse over at Blago.		See 5th Army Art Div
 2207		1-Jul		2nd Red Banner Army Artillery Division		Blagoviesk				See 5th Army Art Div
 										
 

[treespider]

Here is my suggested slot allocations for the Trans Baikal Front and the reasons why:

2163 (New) – 85 Rifle Corps – Represents 36 & 57 Motorized Div and 1 & 3 Mot Reg. These units were in 17th Army throughout the war until August Storm and formed 85 Corps Dec 43

2164 – 2nd Rifle Corps ( replaces 35th Rifle Division) (Upgrades to 2nd Rifle Corps)– Represents 97 & 116 RD & Airborne Battalion which are present at start, Then represents the 2nd RC arrives July 42 as the 97 & 116 RD & Airborne have left

2165 – 86 Rifle Corps (replaces 66th Rifle division) (Upgrades to 86 Rifle Corps) – Represents 94, 209 & 210 RD which eventually form 86 RC

2166, 2167 and 2168 will be occupied by the 5th Gd Rifle Corps, 94th Rifle corps and 113th Rifle Corps all of which are August Storm Reinforcements. (replacing 78, 79 and 101 Mountain Division)

2169 – Trans Baikal Engineer Brigade – Represents various engineer elements assigned to trans Baikal Front

2170 – 3 Gd Art Div – August Storm reinforcement

2171 – 6 Gd Art Div – August Storm reinforcement

2172 – 17th Army Art Corps – 20% At start strength – Represents At Start 185 Gun Artillery Regiment, By Jul 42 increases in strength to represent 185 Gun Artillery Regiment, 1141 Gun Artillery Regiment, 413 Howitzer Artillery Regiment and in Feb 43 represents 185 Gun Artillery Regiment, 624 Gun Artillery Regiment, 629 Gun Artillery Regiment, 1141 Gun Artillery Regiment, 413 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 178 Mortar Regiment

2173 – 36 Army Art Corps –Represents At Start 267 Corps Artillery Regiment, 390 Corps Artillery Regiment, 14 Mortar Battalion, July 42 - 259 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 267 Gun Artillery Regiment, 390 Gun Artillery Regiment, 1233 Gun Artillery Regiment, 177 Mortar regiment

Slot 2174 – Tr-Bkl Cavalry Division (replaces 81st PVO) – Represents the 51st and later the 59th Cavalry Division

2175 – Far Eastern Front - Sahkalin Rifle Corps (replaces 82nd PVO)– Represents ‘At Start’ 79 Rifle Division, 101 Rifle Division, SAKHALIN Rifle Brigade

2176 – Far Eastern Front Artillery Corps (Replaces 83rd PVO)– Represents ‘At Start’ 181 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 362 Artillery Battalion, 367 Artillery Battalion; Jul 42 - 428 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 1137 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, KHABAROVSK Artillery Battalion, 362 Artillery Battalion, 367 Artillery Battalion

Slot 2177 – 31 Fortified Region ( Replaces 103rd region)

Slot 2178 – 32 Fortified Region ( Replaces 104th region)

Slot 2179 - Free – Could be used for reinforcement or separate AA units

Slot 2180 12th Air Army Base Force

Slot 2181 - Tr-Bkl Front Art.Corps – Represents At Start 106 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 216 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 413 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 13 Mortar Battalion, Jul 42 - 106 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, high power, 1146 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, high power, 216 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, *1142 Gun Artillery Regiment, 1143 Gun Artillery Regiment, 176 Mortar Regiment, 178 Mortar Regiment, 32 Guards Mortar Regiment

Slot 2182 - 17th Army Tank Corps – Represents At Start 61 Tank Division, 9 Motorized Armored Brigade, 30 Motorcycle Regiment, 82 Tank Battalion, July 42 - 61 Tank Division, 43 Tank Brigade, 9 Motorized Armored Brigade, 30 Motorcycle Regiment, 70 Tank Battalion, 82 Tank Battalion, Feb 43 - 61 Tank Division, 43 Tank Brigade, 9 Motorized Armored Brigade, 30 Motorcycle Regiment, 68 Tank Battalion, 70 Tank Battalion, 82 Tank Battaion

Slot 2183 - 111 Tank Division

Slot 2184 - Tr-Bkl Front TankCorps – Represents 33 Tank Battalion, 35 Tank Battalion of 36th Army, Jul 42 - 44 Tank Brigade, 205 Tank Brigade, 206 Tank Brigade 33 Tank Battalion, 35 Tank Battalion, Feb 43 – Same

2185 – 8th Cav Division (no change) – No change other than possible location

2186 9 Mech Corps Aug. Storm
2187 7 Mech Corps Aug-Storm
2188 3 Mech Corps Aug-Storm

[treespider]

Here is my suggested slot allocations for the Far Eastern Front and the reasons why:

2175 – Sahkalin Rifle Corps (replaces 82nd PVO)– Represents ‘At Start’ 79 Rifle Division, 101 Rifle Division, SAKHALIN Rifle Brigade

2176 – Far Eastern Front Artillery Corps (Replaces 83rd PVO)– Represents ‘At Start’ 181 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 362 Artillery Battalion, 367 Artillery Battalion; Jul 42 - 428 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 1137 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, KHABAROVSK Artillery Battalion, 362 Artillery Battalion, 367 Artillery Battalion

2185 – 8th Cav Division (no change) – No change other than possible location

2189 – 56 Rifle Corps (replaces 39 Rifle Div) – Arrives Dec 43

2190 – 5 Rifle Corps ( replaces 59 Rifle Div) – Represents ‘At Start’ 35 Rifle Division, 66 Rifle Division, Amur. Rifle Regiment; Jul 42 – 35 Rifle Division, 66 Rifle Division, 422 Rifle Division, 246 Rifle Brigade, 248 Rifle Brigade

2191 – 26 Rifle Corps (replaces 1st Rifle Bde) – Represents ‘At Start’ 22 Rifle Division, 59 Rifle Division, GRODEKOVA Rifle Division

2192 – 59 Rifle Corps (replaces 4th Rifle Bde) – Represents ‘At Start’ 39 Rifle Division, SPAASK (98) Rifle Division

2193 – 17 Rifle Corps ( replaces 5th Rifle Bde) – Represents ‘At Start’ Poltava Rifle Division; Jul 42 - 190 Rifle Division, 261 Rifle Brigade, 262 Rifle Brigade

2194 – 102 Region Fort – No change

2195 – Free

2196 – 25th Army Art Corps ( Replaces 273rd Gun Regt) – Represents ‘At Start’ 215 Artillery Regiment, 282 Artillery Regiment, 386 Artillery Regiment, 548 Artillery Regiment, 549 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 21 Mortar Battalion

2197 – Free

2198 – 45 Rifle Corps (replaces 549 Howitzer rgt) – August Storm reinforcement arrives June 21

2199 – 12th Aviation Rgt – No change

2200 – (new) 204 Rifle Division

2201 – 10 Mech Corps (replace 59 Tank Bde) – August Storm

2202 – 1st Army Tank Corps (replaces 69 Motorized Bde) – Represents ‘At Start’ - 2 (USSURIISK) TD, 75 Tank Brigade, 77 Tank Brigade, Motorized Rifle Brigade

2203 – 3 Rifle Division (same) – Represents 2nd Army 3rd RD.

2204 – 12 Rifle Division (same) – Represents 2nd Army 12th RD

2205 – 101 Region Fort (same)

2206 – 15 Army Art Div (replaces 42nd Gun Rgt) – August Storm

2207 – 2 Red Banner Army Art Div (replaces 550 Howitzer Regt) – Represents ‘At Start’ 42 Artillery Regiment, 114 Artillery Regiment, 411 Artillery Regiment, 550 HOW Artillery Regiment, 192 Artillery Battalion, 22 Mortar Battalion

2208 – 10 Aviation Regt (same)

2209 – 105 Region Fort (new)

2210 – 34 Rifle Division (same)

2211 – 111 Region Fort (replaces 115 Region)

2212 – 65 Rifle Corps (replaces 52 Gun Rgt) – August Storm

2213 - 25 Army Tank Corps (replaces 76 Gun Rgt) – Represents ‘At Start’ 72 Tank Brigade, 76 Tank Brigade; JUL – 42 represents 72 Tank Brigade, 76 Tank Brigade, 302 Tank Battalion; FEB – 43 represents 72 Tank Brigade, 76 Tank Brigade, 302 Tank Battalion, 218 Tank Brigade, 382 Tank Battalion

2214 – 10 Air Army EAB (same)

2215 – 112 Region Fort (new)

2216 – 72 Rifle Corps (replaces 32 Rifle Division) – August Storm

2217 – 39 Rifle Corps (replaces 40 Rifle Division) – Represents ‘At Start’ 40 Rifle Division, 105 Rifle Division, 208 Rifle Division, VOROSHILOV Rifle Division

2218 – 87 Rifle Corps (replaces 92 Rifle Division) – Dec 43

2219 – 88 Rifle Corps (replaces 105 Rifle Division) – Feb 43

2220 – Far Eastern Front Engineer Brigade (replaces 32nd Engr Regt) – Represents Far Eastern Front engineer units

2221 – 106 Region Fort (same)

2222 – 107 Region Fort (same)

2223 – 108 Region Fort (same)

2224 – 110 Region Fort(same)

2225 – Vladivostok Fort(same)

2226 – 5 Army Art Div (replaces 282 Gun Rgt) – August Storm

2227 – 1st Red Banner Army Art Div (replaces 548 Gun Rgt) – Represents ‘At Start’ 50 Corps Artillery Regiment, 273 Corps Artillery Regiment, 165 Howitzer Artillery Regiment, 199 Howitzer Artillery Regiment

2228 – 9 Air Army (same)

2229 – 9 Aviation Regt (same)

2235 – 35 Army Tank Div (replaces 312 Rifle Division) – Represents ‘At Start’ 29 Motor cycle Regt, JUL – 42 represents 125 Tank Brigade, 172 Tank Brigade, 29 Motorcycle Regiment

2245 – 2 Army Tank Corps (replaces 313 Rifle Division) – Represents ‘At Start’ 73 Tank Brigade, 74 Tank Brigade; FEB – 43 represents 73 Tank Brigade, 74 Tank Brigade, 672 Tank Battalion, 673 Tank Battalion, 674 Tank Battalion, 676 Tank Battalion

2277 – 15 Army Tank Div (replaces 8th Rgt) – Represents ‘At Start’1 (AMUR) Tank Division, JUL 42 – represents 165 Tank Brigade, 171 Tank Brigade, 677 Tank Battalion

2293 – 28 Soviet Air (same)

2306 – 27 Soviet Air (same)

2321 – 26 Soviet Air (same)

2372 – Okha Naval Fort (same

3447 – Petropavlosk Fort (same)

[Sneer]

did anybody stated how manyof them were full strenght ???
i think it is crucial
it was a standard that many russian divisions were understrenght and undergunned in west front for long 
there was not enough equipment -even small arms - for newly created troops
i doubt if many far east division in 42 was in really good shape
and common sense is that to defend moscow they moved best units they had
so paper strenght was higher than in witp but i feel that real strenght was even lower

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Sneer


and common sense is that to defend moscow they moved best units they had
so paper strenght was higher than in witp but i feel that real strenght was even lower

If you check the numbers of units you'll find very few went west...and strength in the far east actually gradually built up as the war progressed...


From Glantz- "For example Soviet forces in the Far east were particularly strong when the war began because of the serious border engagements that had occurred between the red Army and Japanese Kwantung Army at Lake Khasan and Khalkhin-Gol in 1938 and 1939... ...When the Germans bagan Operation Barbarossa, Red Army strength in the Far east stood at 32 division equivalents. Between July and November 1941, Stavka recalled 12 divisions westward from the far east and trans-Baikal regions; nevertheless, the massive ongoing mobilization still kept Red Army strength in the Far east at a level of 39 division equivalents. (A seven division increase over pre war numbers) despite transferring an additional 23 divisions and 19 brigades westward in 1942, the Stavka increased Red Army strength in the far east to 46 division equivalents by 19 novemebr 1942... ... By the summer of 1943 however, all transfer of forces westward ended abruptly. With the red Army on the offensive in the West, thereafter, forces began flowing eastwrd, albeit at first very slowly."

[Sneer]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Sneer


and common sense is that to defend moscow they moved best units they had
so paper strenght was higher than in witp but i feel that real strenght was even lower

If you check the numbers of units you'll find very few went west...and strength in the far east actually gradually built up as the war progressed...

i don't care about number of units but number of soldiers and equipment in these units
i agree that unit number gradually built up but it is not most important data

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Sneer


and common sense is that to defend moscow they moved best units they had
so paper strenght was higher than in witp but i feel that real strenght was even lower

If you check the numbers of units you'll find very few went west...and strength in the far east actually gradually built up as the war progressed...

i don't care about number of units but number of soldiers and equipment in these units
i agree that unit number gradually built up but it is not most important data

key words are "division equivalents"

From Glantz- "For example Soviet forces in the Far east were particularly strong when the war began because of the serious border engagements that had occurred between the red Army and Japanese Kwantung Army at Lake Khasan and Khalkhin-Gol in 1938 and 1939... ...When the Germans bagan Operation Barbarossa, Red Army strength in the Far east stood at 32 division equivalents. Between July and November 1941, Stavka recalled 12 divisions westward from the far east and trans-Baikal regions; nevertheless, the massive ongoing mobilization still kept Red Army strength in the Far east at a level of 39 division equivalents. (A seven division increase over pre war numbers) despite transferring an additional 23 divisions and 19 brigades westward in 1942, the Stavka increased Red Army strength in the far east to 46 division equivalents by 19 novemebr 1942... ... By the summer of 1943 however, all transfer of forces westward ended abruptly. With the red Army on the offensive in the West, thereafter, forces began flowing eastwrd, albeit at first very slowly."

[Sneer]

yes but to extent only
division equivalent is when you count regiments and brigades into artificial divisions for counting purposes
it is not sure what was real strenght of these units

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

yes but to extent only
division equivalent is when you count regiments and brigades into artificial divisions for counting purposes
it is not sure what was real strenght of these units

The manpower, units, and equipment were there throughout the war, albiet less well-trained as the veteran units were transferred West. The equipment upgrades were slow in coming..., but as Soviet equipment in 1941 was better than most Japanese equipment in 1945 that hardly makes a difference. The only real Japanese "gain" vs. the Soviets in 1941-44 was in the air.