MWiF Map Review - America

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five
Long Island shouldn't be connected the way it currently is on the map...it would have been way to easy to have those bridges blown in case of an Axis invasion.  I don't know myself what the right depiction is...but I dont' think the current one can be it.

Here is Patrice's two proposals for NYC. We currently are gonig with the one on the left.



These hexes are each about 60 miles in diameter, while Manhatten is only about 1 mile wide east to west. The question then becomes where does Manhatten go? This version makes it part of Long Island. Clearly making it part of NJ is a poor solution. And making it part of southern NY state doesn't work either. As for the blown bridges, I believe the Brooklyn heights dominate Manhatten militarily and trying to hold Manhatten is untenable if Long Island is held by the enemy.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Executioner Five
Long Island shouldn't be connected the way it currently is on the map...it would have been way to easy to have those bridges blown in case of an Axis invasion.  I don't know myself what the right depiction is...but I dont' think the current one can be it.

Manhattan & Long Island is kind of Singapore & the rest of Malaya, and there are a whole lot of places where a small body of water separates a place from the rest of the mass of land of the hexagon where the place lies. With the scale used on the map, it is difficult to put in a single hex a place that is only a couple of miles large, so depicting small places separated by a small body of water from the main land by a single hex isn't that bad I think.

[YohanTM2]

Halifax should indeed be a city and major port. Very large harbour and had signifcant defenses during WWII

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Perhaps it is not too big of a deal, but the current mini-map has a Canadian city/port that will never be iced in. I think it is in the Maritime provinces. The MWiF map does not. A Canadian unit coming on the map in the winter will likely not be able to get anywhere useful until next turn.

The map is certainly correct, but I wanted to call attention to the effect.

You're right indeed.
The (c) 2000 America minimap has Halifax as a city and Major Port.
The (c) 1998 AiF America map has it as a Major Port.
The (c) 1996 America minimap had not Halifax, but only Sidney as a minor port at this place.

As the (c) 2000 America minimap is the latest ADG production for WiF FE, I take it that ADG intention is to make Halifax a city plus a major port.
Moreover, the Canada 1941 census that someone posted on these forums has it that Halifax has 123k inhabitants in 1941.

So I will make Halifax a city. Comments ?

[Froonp]

How about some frostbites ?
Here is Hudson Bay.

[Glen Felzien]

Thank you; good job on the maps.

I wish to add some detail to the prairies if I may. I only make these recommendations because I know that today, these are significant navigational obstructions. In the 1940s they were exceptionally difficult.



The area I marked with the letter A shows a marsh moved one hex east. Although not strictly accurate, it is more accurate than its original location. Especially in the '40s.

I have also added a river here. This is the Athabasca River. Lesser Slave Lake drains into it. The head waters for the river is in the Jasper area and the Columbia Ice Fields. This is a significant river with very few places to ford.

B is the North Saskatchewan River. Its head waters are also in the Rockies. It passes through the city of Edmonton. This river has over time cut a significant trench. Todays bridges are anywhere from ~50' to 100' above the river due to this massive gorge.

The Red Deer River, C, starts in the foothills of the Rockies. It is not as foreboding as the first two rivers as it runs a gentler course, however, it does present significant crossing problems. It drains into the South Saskatchewan that you have included.

Some may agrue that the Bow River ought to be included. This river passes through the middle of Calgary and joins up with the South Saskatchewan. As significant a river as it is (economically), there are many places (every few miles) that can be forded. As an obstruction to military operations, I would argue that the Bow river is insignificant. However, if you like fly fishing for trout, it is one of the world's best!

[pak19652002]

On the left hand picture, is that a river that separates the Newark hex from the NYC hex? That is, can it be crossed by non-marine land units?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Glen Felzien
The area I marked with the letter A shows a marsh moved one hex east. Although not strictly accurate, it is more accurate than its original location. Especially in the '40s.

I have also added a river here. This is the Athabasca River. Lesser Slave Lake drains into it. The head waters for the river is in the Jasper area and the Columbia Ice Fields. This is a significant river with very few places to ford.

B is the North Saskatchewan River. Its head waters are also in the Rockies. It passes through the city of Edmonton. This river has over time cut a significant trench. Todays bridges are anywhere from ~50' to 100' above the river due to this massive gorge.

The Red Deer River, C, starts in the foothills of the Rockies. It is not as foreboding as the first two rivers as it runs a gentler course, however, it does present significant crossing problems. It drains into the South Saskatchewan that you have included.

Great !
I'm happy you posted this, because I wanted to add the North Saskatchewan River sometime in the future, but was not sure of its whole path. I saw on Googlea Earth that it was as massive as the South Saskatchewan River, so I thought it deserved to be displayed. Also, I looked at the original WiF FE maps of the area, and saw that it was not here because of the scale and because there were already 2 rivers going in the area, so no room for it.

I think I'll mak all the mods you showed soon.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

On the left hand picture, is that a river that separates the Newark hex from the NYC hex? That is, can it be crossed by non-marine land units?

Now that you ask, I am not completely sure how Patrice set it up. I expect it to be a river - the Hudson to be exact.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
On the left hand picture, is that a river that separates the Newark hex from the NYC hex? That is, can it be crossed by non-marine land units?

Now that you ask, I am not completely sure how Patrice set it up. I expect it to be a river - the Hudson to be exact.

That's a river. I drew the mouth of the Hudson too far maybe ?

[pak19652002]

That's what I was getting at. The Hudson is a river, of course. Maybe just make the picture thinner to avoid confusion.
I don't think it's wide enough to warrant a strait if you compare it to Gibraltar for example. I'm still fuzzy on how straits are defined in WiF.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
On the left hand picture, is that a river that separates the Newark hex from the NYC hex? That is, can it be crossed by non-marine land units?

Now that you ask, I am not completely sure how Patrice set it up. I expect it to be a river - the Hudson to be exact.

That's a river. I drew the mouth of the Hudson too far maybe ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

That's what I was getting at. The Hudson is a river, of course. Maybe just make the picture thinner to avoid confusion.
I don't think it's wide enough to warrant a strait if you compare it to Gibraltar for example. I'm still fuzzy on how straits are defined in WiF.

Aren't we all? I think of a straits as a place where a ferry boat service runs. It's too wide for a bridge but it doesn't require a serious ocean-going ship. That's why at one point I was considering a straits to model the link between NYC and Staten Island/NJ. But as Patrice noted, it somewhat depends on where the hex grid falls. When an island is in the same hex as the larger land mass, the water separation may not be modelled at all (only visually/cosmetically).

[Froonp]

More frostbites, in Southern Alaska and Aleutians now.

[Froonp]

Here is northern Alaska. There are a lot of places like this one in the far north, with only wilderness.
Note that Beaufort Sea do not have Sea Box Sections. It is not neither adjacent to the Bering Sea (to its left).
I suppose this is to prevent ships from sailing there, because the Beaufort Sea is too Icy. This is an assumption from me, I do not know if the Beaufort Sea is Icy or not.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is northern Alaska. There are a lot of places like this one in the far north, with only wilderness.
Note that Beaufort Sea do not have Sea Box Sections. It is not neither adjacent to the Bering Sea (to its left).
I suppose this is to prevent ships from sailing there, because the Beaufort Sea is too Icy. This is an assumption from me, I do not know if the Beaufort Sea is Icy or not.

The two northernmost sea areas are isolated and are not available for naval operations: Kara Sea and Beaufort Sea. Given that they have no ports, it's not possible to place naval units there. So it is only a question of air units. And given that there are no naval units, what would the air units have to do?

As a counter example, the Caspian Sea has ports and sea boxes. Conveying resources across the Caspian is a definite possiblity.

[Froonp]

The two northernmost sea areas are isolated and are not available for naval operations: Kara Sea and Beaufort Sea. Given that they have no ports, it's not possible to place naval units there. So it is only a question of air units. And given that there are no naval units, what would the air units have to do?

Indeed, Beaufort Sea is adjacent to Chukchi Sea where the 2 northernmost Alaskan hexes touch the map border. The Beaufort Sea is also adjacent to the Hudson Bay just above the peninsula that is at column 290-295.
The junction is out of the map area for both zones connexions, but except for the ices, nothing would prevent ships from traveling here.

I would love if WiF had a rule for ships to travel through the ice covered seas [:D] :
- Chukchi--> Beaufort --> Hudson --> Canadian Coast --> Atlantic, and
- Chukchi --> Kara --> Arctic Ocean --> Norwegian Sea

There was effectively 1 ship I know of that sailed the second path, from Kiel to the Pacific, it was one of German Raider, helped by Russian Ice breakers. Only 1 ship for all the war, the travel must not have been a pleasure cruise.

Anyway, I would love a rule about that )

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is northern Alaska. There are a lot of places like this one in the far north, with only wilderness.
Note that Beaufort Sea do not have Sea Box Sections. It is not neither adjacent to the Bering Sea (to its left).
I suppose this is to prevent ships from sailing there, because the Beaufort Sea is too Icy. This is an assumption from me, I do not know if the Beaufort Sea is Icy or not.

The two northernmost sea areas are isolated and are not available for naval operations: Kara Sea and Beaufort Sea. Given that they have no ports, it's not possible to place naval units there. So it is only a question of air units. And given that there are no naval units, what would the air units have to do?

As a counter example, the Caspian Sea has ports and sea boxes. Conveying resources across the Caspian is a definite possiblity.

Can a seaplane be based in the Beaufort sea during summer?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The two northernmost sea areas are isolated and are not available for naval operations: Kara Sea and Beaufort Sea. Given that they have no ports, it's not possible to place naval units there. So it is only a question of air units. And given that there are no naval units, what would the air units have to do?

Indeed, Beaufort Sea is adjacent to Chukchi Sea where the 2 northernmost Alaskan hexes touch the map border. The Beaufort Sea is also adjacent to the Hudson Bay just above the peninsula that is at column 290-295.
The junction is out of the map area for both zones connexions, but except for the ices, nothing would prevent ships from traveling here.

I would love if WiF had a rule for ships to travel through the ice covered seas [:D] :
- Chukchi--> Beaufort --> Hudson --> Canadian Coast --> Atlantic, and
- Chukchi --> Kara --> Arctic Ocean --> Norwegian Sea

There was effectively 1 ship I know of that sailed the second path, from Kiel to the Pacific, it was one of German Raider, helped by Russian Ice breakers. Only 1 ship for all the war, the travel must not have been a pleasure cruise.

Anyway, I would love a rule about that )

Actually no.

In CWIF the Alaskan land mass connected to the northern edge of the map with 2 adjacent hexes, denying the connection between the Beaufort and Chikchi Seas. As you have drawn it, the data files would have to be modified to denote that these two sea areas are adjacent. And then the Beaufort Sea would need sea boxes. I have no strong feelings either way.

As for the northwest passage across Canada through the ice from Europe to China, well, a lot of men died trying to achieve that. I think it would be a dishonor to their memory to connect the Beaufort Sea and the Hundson Bay.

[Froonp]

Can a seaplane be based in the Beaufort sea during summer?

A seaplane can be based on any hex that have coastal or lake hexside, all year long.
Edit : If lake hexside and freezing, means that the seaplane is destroyed also, so, nearly all year long [:D].

[spence]

Just passing through.  The Connecticut River (the one just East of Bridgeport) should run a more Northerly course (pretty much due North).  Up where I live now (near the Canadian border it is easily fordable over most of its length.  If I was drawing the map I'd end the river hexside in between the two mountain hexes two hexrows North of the Boston hexrow (not trying to be snotty just I've fished pretty much the whole river so I know it's depth and width pretty well).
 
Geez kinda always thought this the "Holy Grail" of wargames and was pleasantly surprised to see screenshots and hear that it's in Beta.  Guess I'll have to check more often.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: spence
Just passing through.  The Connecticut River (the one just East of Bridgeport) should run a more Northerly course (pretty much due North).  Up where I live now (near the Canadian border it is easily fordable over most of its length.  If I was drawing the map I'd end the river hexside in between the two mountain hexes two hexrows North of the Boston hexrow (not trying to be snotty just I've fished pretty much the whole river so I know it's depth and width pretty well).

I corrected that, plus added the Cincinnati - Detroit rail that WiFzimmerman mentionned, and redrew slightly the coast betwween NYC and Newark so that the river is better seen.
I also shown the 4 cities that are proposed to be added (Columbus, Louisville, Grand Rapids, Syracuse).

I would like opinions about the latest especially.

Also, I would like opinions about the addition of Sudbury and Regina in Canada (See posts #132 and #134 for a map showing them).