Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

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Froonp
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

Peru - Almirante Grau - main reason I could not find anything here is my lack of spanish
skills. On this ship I am in need of stats and some information,
anything important that happened in her life, when she was
commissioned/decommissioned etc.
Everything you need is here :
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/p ... /grau.html
I searched for Peruvian Navy on Google, and I found a wikipedia entry, which led to this one.

The home page for this site is at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aj.cashmore/index.html and can be usefull for other ships.

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terje439
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by terje439 »

Exellent site indeed. Thnx!

Anyway ppl I need some help with some USSR ships now.

Do anyone know anything about a USSR CV named Stalin, a CVL named Lenin and a CL named Zhukov? The hits I have gotten have all been too modern ships to be the one intended to be used by ADG, so atm I am leaning on the idea that they might be fictional, but I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge about the USSR Navy is lackfull at best [:D]

Again any help is greatly apreciated!
Tnx
Terje
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wosung
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by wosung »

(Mexico)
"Anahuac coast defence ship
(ex-Deodoro), was purchased from Brazil in 1924. She was not modernized while in Mexican service and was discarded in 1938."

(Brazil)
"Deodoro class
Deodoro, launched 18.6.1898, Disp. 3162t, sold 1924"

Robert Gardiner and Roger Chesneau (ed.), Conway's all the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946, London: Conway Maritime Press, 1980 (repr. 2001), pp. 414, 416.

Only found two WW1 Russian Destroyers renamed Lenin (scuttled 24.6.41) and Stalin (BU 1953), no Zhukov, no CV.

Maybe these ships are hypothetical reparations or compensations, like the Archangelsk/Royal Sovereign was from 29. Aug. 1944 to 4 Febr. 1949 for the Soviet's share on the Italian Navy. In 1949 it was subsituted with the Giulio Cesare. (See: Conway's, pp. 323, 325.)
wosung
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: terje439
Do anyone know anything about a USSR CV named Stalin, a CVL named Lenin and a CL named Zhukov? The hits I have gotten have all been too modern ships to be the one intended to be used by ADG, so atm I am leaning on the idea that they might be fictional, but I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge about the USSR Navy is lackfull at best [:D]
- The Zhukov is a CA (not CL) from 1940 (Ships in Flames kit).
- The Stalin is a class 2 CV from 1942 (Ships in Flames kit).
- The Lenin is a class 1 CVL from 1940 (Ships in Flames kit).
Isn't there any information in the original SiF rulebook (I don't have it handy) ?

I believe they are all fictional ships that weren't even layed down.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: terje439
Do anyone know anything about a USSR CV named Stalin, a CVL named Lenin and a CL named Zhukov? The hits I have gotten have all been too modern ships to be the one intended to be used by ADG, so atm I am leaning on the idea that they might be fictional, but I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge about the USSR Navy is lackfull at best [:D]
Terje, I looked into my SiF rulebook, and indeed, all SiF counters are listed in a 10 pages long list, showing characteristics such as : Date Laid down, Date Launch (lots have no date), Date Comp. (do not know what Comp. means), Fate, Displacement, Length, Speek, Oil, Range at speed, Max armour at Belt / Deck & Turret, Crew, Eff. Belt (slope equivallent belt), Primary, Secondary and Terciary guns, with caliber (all in mm) and number, Med AA, light AA, Torpedo tubes (number and size), Aircrafts, Rockets.

Surprisingly, both the Russian CVs are not in the list, strengthening the feeling that those ships did not exist, and were not even thought about by the Russians, they are just fictionnal ships that Russians in 1939 may have had wanted to own in a fictionnal WWII.

There are data for the CA Zhukov, as follow :
It is in the same CA class as the Chapayev, Zhelazniakov, Frunze, Kuibyshev, Chkalov, Ordzhonikidze.
Laid down : 01/01/1940
Launch : -
Comp. : -
Fate : BU 1940s (don't know what BU means).
Standard displacement : 11,300 tons.
Length : 201 m.
Speed : 34 kts.
Oil : 3,500 tons.
Range at Speed : 9,000 nm at 14 knots.
Max Belt Armour : 2 inches.
Max Deck Armour : 2 inches.
Max Turret Armour : 3 inches.
Crew : 840.
Secondary guns : 12 x 180 mm (no primary guns)
Tertiary guns : 8 x 100 mm.
Med AA : 24 x 37 mm.
Torpedo Tues : 6 x 21 inches.
Aircrafts : 2.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

There are data from the SiF rulebook for the CA Anahuac :
Laid down : 1896
Launch : 18/06/1896
Comp. : 01/01/1908
Fate : Discarded 1938.
Standard displacement : 3,162 tons.
Length : 81.5 m.
Speed : 15 kts.
Range at Speed : 1,720 nm at 10 knots.
Max Belt Armour : 14 inches. This must be an error.
Max Deck Armour : nothing writen.
Max Turret Armour : 9 inches. This must be an error.
Crew : 200.
Primary guns : 2 x 239 mm.
Secondary guns : none.
Tertiary guns : 4 x 119 mm.
Med AA : 6 x 57 mm.
Torpedo Tubes : 2 x 18 inches.
Aircrafts : None.
Note : Version of 1936.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

About the CA Zhukov, the "The Illustrated Directory of Warships from 1860 to Present Day" has an entry talking about the Chapayev Class who says :

"These -- the entry talks about the Kirov CA Class (Kirov, Voroshilov), and of the Maxim Gorky CA Class (Maxim gorky, Molotov, Kaganovich, Kalinn) that were a follow-up from the Kirov Class -- were then followed by the Chapayev Class, laid down in 1938-40, was a lenlarged version of the Kirov Class, lengthened in order to accommodate a fourth triple 7.1 inch (180 mm) turret. Seven were laid down -- which is consistent with data from the SiF rulebook -- in 1938-40, of which five were completed in 1949-50, and these had relatively short operational careers, three being scrapped in the 1960s, while the other two were relegated to the training role."

From the SiF ship lists :
The 7 laid down are : Chapayev (38), Zhelazniakov (38), Frunze (39), Kuibyshev (39), Chkalov (39), Ordzhonikidze (40) and Zhukov (40).
The 5 completed are : Chapayev (49), Zhelazniakov (49), Frunze (50), Kuibyshev (50), Chkalov (50).
The 3 scrapped are : Chapayev (61), Frunze (60s), Kuibyshev (60s).
The 2 in Training role are : Zhelazniakov, Chkalov.

Note : From this study I learn that "BU" (in SiF ship list) means "scrapped", and that "Comp." (in SiF ship list) means "Completed".
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by terje439 »

ORIGINAL: Froonp

About the CA Zhukov, the "The Illustrated Directory of Warships from 1860 to Present Day" has an entry talking about the Chapayev Class who says :

"These -- the entry talks about the Kirov CA Class (Kirov, Voroshilov), and of the Maxim Gorky CA Class (Maxim gorky, Molotov, Kaganovich, Kalinn) that were a follow-up from the Kirov Class -- were then followed by the Chapayev Class, laid down in 1938-40, was a lenlarged version of the Kirov Class, lengthened in order to accommodate a fourth triple 7.1 inch (180 mm) turret. Seven were laid down -- which is consistent with data from the SiF rulebook -- in 1938-40, of which five were completed in 1949-50, and these had relatively short operational careers, three being scrapped in the 1960s, while the other two were relegated to the training role."

From the SiF ship lists :
The 7 laid down are : Chapayev (38), Zhelazniakov (38), Frunze (39), Kuibyshev (39), Chkalov (39), Ordzhonikidze (40) and Zhukov (40).
The 5 completed are : Chapayev (49), Zhelazniakov (49), Frunze (50), Kuibyshev (50), Chkalov (50).
The 3 scrapped are : Chapayev (61), Frunze (60s), Kuibyshev (60s).
The 2 in Training role are : Zhelazniakov, Chkalov.

Note : From this study I learn that "BU" (in SiF ship list) means "scrapped", and that "Comp." (in SiF ship list) means "Completed".

Ah excellent! I did not find the name of the ones that were not completed, thnx!
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Mziln »

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Note : From this study I learn that "BU" (in SiF ship list) means "scrapped", and that "Comp." (in SiF ship list) means "Completed".

BU = Broken Up (naval term for scrapped).
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by lordzyplon »

ah, froonp, isnt that the greatest book ever? ive had it for years... never gets old.

any other ships?
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by terje439 »

ah you people want more ships to look up?
Sure I can do that [:D][:D]

Todays topic: The Imperial Japanese Navy
Carriers to be specific.

The CV Ryujo's armor thickness
The CV Unryu's armor thickness
The CV Amagi's armor thuckness
The CV Katsuragi's armor thickness

And then to make it even more interesting;

Do anyone know anything about the carriers Fuji (only IJN Fuji I found was an old BB), Shikishima (only found an old BB), Karyu (found nothing at all), Meiji (found nothing at all), and Showa (found nothing at all).
"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

ORIGINAL: terje439
Todays topic: The Imperial Japanese Navy
Carriers to be specific.

The CV Unryu's armor thickness
The CV Amagi's armor thuckness
The CV Katsuragi's armor thickness
All three are from the same CV class, and have armor as follow :
Max Belt : 5.9 inches.
Max Deck : 2,2 inches.
Do anyone know anything about the carriers Fuji (only IJN Fuji I found was an old BB), Shikishima (only found an old BB), Karyu (found nothing at all), Meiji (found nothing at all), and Showa (found nothing at all).
Karyu is the same class as the Shinano, and the same kind of BB conversion.
Shinano BB and Karyu BB were layed down in 1940, cancelled in 1942, 63,000 tons, 263 m length, speed 27 kts, max belt armor 15,75 inches, max deck armor 7,48 inches, 2,500 men, same armament as the Yamato (9 x 18.1 inch guns and 6 x 6.1 inch guns). I doubt that the armor and armament would have been the same for the Carrier version, need to look at the Shinano to know.

Shinano CV is 62,000 tons, 266 m length, 27 knots speed, max belt armor 8.1 inches, max deck armor 10.6 inches, 2,400 men, 12 x 5 inches guns.
Karyu would have been the same.

I suppose that Meiji & Showa are conversion from Super BB hulls that were layed down as BBs, but were projected to be converted into CVs, like the Shinano was for example.

Fuji and Shikishima I know nothing about. I'll look at my book tonight.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Mziln »

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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

Shinano CV is 62,000 tons, 266 m length, 27 knots speed, max belt armor 8.1 inches, max deck armor 10.6 inches, 2,400 men, 12 x 5 inches guns.
Karyu would have been the same.
The "The Illustrated Directory of Warships from 1860 to Present Day" has it different for the Deck Armor.
It says :
Flight Deck 3 inches.
Hangar Deck : 7.5 inches.

The 10.6 inches mentionned above must have been the sum of both.

It also says that the Shinano was layed down as the 3rd Yamato Class BB, halted in December 1941, and restarted in June 1942 after the Midway Battle.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

Karyu is the same class as the Shinano, and the same kind of BB conversion.
Shinano BB and Karyu BB were layed down in 1940, cancelled in 1942, 63,000 tons, 263 m length, speed 27 kts, max belt armor 15,75 inches, max deck armor 7,48 inches, 2,500 men, same armament as the Yamato (9 x 18.1 inch guns and 6 x 6.1 inch guns). I doubt that the armor and armament would have been the same for the Carrier version, need to look at the Shinano to know.
The "The Illustrated Directory of Warships from 1860 to Present Day" gives more details :
Karyu is the 4th Yamato Class BB laid down. It was never officialy named and was only ever known as "hull 111". It was scrapped in 1942 when only 30% complete.

It also talks about 3 more BBs, one numbered No 797, a standard Yamato class, and No 798 & 799 which would have mounted 6 x 20 inches guns (508 mm).
I think that the first is the Suma.
I think that the first of the 20 inches gun equipped BBs would have been the Hizen.

Both those assumptions are based on ADG data published in the SiF rulebook.

I find nothing about the CV Fuji, CV Shikishima, CV Meiji and CV Showa. Given they are from 1943, 1944 and 1945, I guess that even the Japanese know nothing of those. The latest CV they dreamt about was the Shinano.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

Maybe the Fuji and Shikishima are CV convertion from these Cruisers.
Example of Class 4 carriers made from Cruisers are known in the US CVs already.
I did not know this Japanese CA Class. I think that this is a fictional CA class that never saw any ship built.
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Froonp »

So what, terje439, no more query about ships ???? [:D]
Have you got all you need ?

Anyway, thanks for this [&o] [;)].
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Greyshaft »

ORIGINAL: Froonp

So what, terje439, no more query about ships ???? [:D]

That reminds me... I've still got another sixteen air units to do [:(]
/Greyshaft
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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
ORIGINAL: Froonp

So what, terje439, no more query about ships ???? [:D]

That reminds me... I've still got another sixteen air units to do [:(]
It might be more than 16. There are the lend lease air units too. However, most of those already have writeups elsewhere. I have not transferred them over yet because I would like your approval before doing that.
Steve

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RE: Help needed - MWIF naval counter descriptions

Post by Greyshaft »

OK.
Some lend-lease info is already included in the standard descriptions but I'm happy to re-examine the existing write-ups and split that data out for the appropriate counters.
/Greyshaft
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