US Divisional Casualties in WWII

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

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KG Erwin
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by KG Erwin »

ORIGINAL: Puukkoo

Rookies have no combat experience so why not use them for recon duty?

So, you put the new guy on point? Man, did you ever serve in the military?

For the record, I didn't (medically ineligible), but I'd question your suggested method of frontline orientation for a fresh replacement.

You'd hook up each new guy with a veteran, right? This is done under the overall supervision of the platoon sergeant.

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bchapman
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by bchapman »

Casualties Division Theater
25,977 3rd Infantry Division Mediterranean & European
23,277 9th Infantry Division Mediterranean & European
22,660 4th Infantry Division European
20,993 45th Infantry Division Mediterranean & European

Notice that the 4th most casualties were from the 45th ID. The 3rd and the 45th were fighting together almost the entire time. Days in combat for the 45th were almost the same also (511). Anizo, both divisions claimed the title of The Rock of Anzio, huge casualties and lots of heroics for both divisions.
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serg3d
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by serg3d »

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
ORIGINAL: Puukkoo

Rookies have no combat experience so why not use them for recon duty?

So, you put the new guy on point? Man, did you ever serve in the military?

Soviet emplyed penal companies and battalions ("shtrafbat") formed form civilian prisoners, court-martialed personnel and former POW. They were used on the point of the offence, to break through heavy defences. The way out of penal battalions was getting wounded - "redemption by blood" or commit heroic deed. Or survive the term - from one to three months. The penal battalions/companies often suffered 80% or more casualities in single action. They were also forbidden automatic weapon, though in reality they used it, capturing from germans. They weren't wearing Red Army insigna and weren't shouting Hurrah!. They shouted Gu!-Ga! instead. There were also penal fighter wings for court-martialed pilots. By some estimations 1 million Gulag prisoners and 600 thousand military personnel passed through shtrafbats.
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KG Erwin
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by KG Erwin »

ORIGINAL: serg3d
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
ORIGINAL: Puukkoo

Rookies have no combat experience so why not use them for recon duty?

So, you put the new guy on point? Man, did you ever serve in the military?

Soviet emplyed penal companies and battalions ("shtrafbat") formed form civilian prisoners, court-martialed personnel and former POW. They were used on the point of the offence, to break through heavy defences. The way out of penal battalions was getting wounded - "redemption by blood" or commit heroic deed. Or survive the term - from one to three months. The penal battalions/companies often suffered 80% or more casualities in single action. They were also forbidden automatic weapon, though in reality they used it, capturing from germans. They weren't wearing Red Army insigna and weren't shouting Hurrah!. They shouted Gu!-Ga! instead. There were also penal fighter wings for court-martialed pilots. By some estimations 1 million Gulag prisoners and 600 thousand military personnel passed through shtrafbats.

Yes, I'm aware of this practice, which doesn't make me empathsize with the Russians too much. They also allegedly deployed NKVD patrols behind the lines to shoot retreating soldiers.

The US system had Provost Marshals to deal with miscreants, but the subject of military justice in the field isn't talked about too much. The Soviets (and the Germans later on) had a zero-tolerance level for shirkers and deserters.

You CAN do this in the game -- there's nothing to keep you from firing on your own men (by using the Z-key for direct fire into a hex).
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Korpraali V
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by Korpraali V »

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

You CAN do this in the game -- there's nothing to keep you from firing on your own men (by using the Z-key for direct fire into a hex).

That also changes the routed or retreating unit to pinned status. Or armoured vehicle to buttoned status. [;)] Naturally rising also their suppression.

However, in PBEM that can be considered as gamey... possibly exception could be Russians shooting retreating infantry to get them back to line, I think.

If I remember right also Germans used few penalty units in eastern front. Am I correct with this?
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KG Erwin
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by KG Erwin »

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V
ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

You CAN do this in the game -- there's nothing to keep you from firing on your own men (by using the Z-key for direct fire into a hex).

That also changes the routed or retreating unit to pinned status. Or armoured vehicle to buttoned status. [;)] Naturally rising also their suppression.

However, in PBEM that can be considered as gamey... possibly exception could be Russians shooting retreating infantry to get them back to line, I think.

If I remember right also Germans used few penalty units in eastern front. Am I correct with this?

Well, firing into a friendly unit's hex IS gamey, and I don't do it.

Even if an enemy unit jumps into a friendly unit's hex in a melee, I don't fire into it. (Japanese units WILL jump into my Marines' foxholes once in awhile).

If the squad can't fight its way out, I'm not gonna save them by killing both them and the enemy.

Sending in a tank is useless --my trapped boys are too demoralized to protect it, and it's likely to get destroyed. There's nothing I can do, and it's frustrating.

Other than airstrikes, this is the situation I most fear -- to be forced to stand by helplessly while some of my men get massacred.
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serg3d
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by serg3d »

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V
If I remember right also Germans used few penalty units in eastern front. Am I correct with this?
"999 units" - used for occupaion and antipartisan duties mostly. They were combined into "999th Afrika Brigade" in 1943 and intended to be sent to Africa. Only part was sent before collapse, and the rest was sent to Greece for occupation duties. German probaly had no this kind of mass insanity which allowed usage of court-martialed personnel as crack troops. Also penal troops more useful and relyable in the offence then in defence (Russian were formed in summer 1942) , and while Germans were advancing they weren't desperate enough to form assault troops from criminals.
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11Bravo
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RE: US Divisional Casualties in WWII

Post by 11Bravo »

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

The most highly decorated soldier of the war, LT Audie Murphy...

The other most highly decorated soldier of the war was Lieutenant Colonel (then Captain) Matt Urban who served with the 9th Infantry Division.

Here is his MOH Citation:

Citation:


Lieutenant Colonel (then Captain) Matt Urban, l 12-22-2414, United States Army, who distinguished himself by a series of bold, heroic actions, exemplified by singularly outstanding combat leadership, personal bravery, and tenacious devotion to duty, during the period 14 June to 3 September 1944 while assigned to the 2d Battalion, 60th Infantry Regiment, 9th Infantry Division.

On 14 June, Captain Urban's company, attacking at Renouf, France, encountered heavy enemy small arms and tank fire. The enemy tanks were unmercifully raking his unit's positions and inflicting heavy casualties. Captain Urban, realizing that his company was in imminent danger of being decimated, armed himself with a bazooka. He worked his way with an ammo carrier through hedgerows, under a continuing barrage of fire, to a point near the tanks. He brazenly exposed himself to the enemy fire and, firing the bazooka, destroyed both tanks. Responding to Captain Urban's action, his company moved forward and routed the enemy.

Later that same day, still in the attack near Orglandes, Captain Urban was wounded in the leg by direct fire from a 37mm tank-gun. He refused evacuation and continued to lead his company until they moved into defensive positions for the night. At 0500 hours the next day, still in the attack near Orglandes, Captain Urban, though badly wounded, directed his company in another attack. One hour later he was again wounded. Suffering from two wounds, one serious, he was evacuated to England.

In mid-July, while recovering from his wounds, he learned of his unit's severe losses in the hedgerows of Normandy. Realizing his unit's need for battle-tested leaders, he voluntarily left the hospital and hitchhiked his way back to his unit hear St. Lo, France. Arriving at the 2d Battalion Command Post at 1130 hours, 25 July, he found that his unit had jumped-off at 1100 hours in the first attack of Operation Cobra." Still limping from his leg wound, Captain Urban made his way forward to retake command of his company. He found his company held up by strong enemy opposition. Two supporting tanks had been destroyed and another, intact but with no tank commander or gunner, was not moving. He located a lieutenant in charge of the support tanks and directed a plan of attack to eliminate the enemy strong-point. The lieutenant and a sergeant were immediately killed by the heavy enemy fire when they tried to mount the tank. Captain Urban, though physically hampered by his leg wound and knowing quick action had to be taken, dashed through the scathing fire and mounted the tank. With enemy bullets ricocheting from the tank, Captain Urban ordered the tank forward and, completely exposed to the enemy fire, manned the machine gun and placed devastating fire on the enemy.
His action, in the face of enemy fire, galvanized the battalion into action and they attacked and destroyed the enemy position.

On 2 August, Captain Urban was wounded in the chest by shell fragments and, disregarding the recommendation of the Battalion Surgeon, again refused evacuation. On 6 August, Captain Urban became the commander of the 2d Battalion. On 15 August, he was again wounded but remained with his unit.

On 3 September, the 2d Battalion was given the mission of establishing a crossing-point on the Meuse River near Heer, Belgium. The enemy planned to stop the advance of the allied Army by concentrating heavy forces at the Meuse. The 2d Battalion, attacking toward the crossing-point, encountered fierce enemy artillery, small arms and mortar fire which stopped the attack. Captain Urban quickly moved from his command post to the lead position of the battalion. Reorganizing the attacking elements, he personally led a charge toward the enemy's strong-point. As the charge moved across the open terrain, Captain Urban was seriously wounded in the neck. Although unable to talk above a whisper from the paralyzing neck wound, and in danger of losing his life, he refused to be evacuated until the enemy was routed and his battalion had secured the crossing-point on the Meuse River. Captain Urban's personal leadership, limitless bravery, and repeated extraordinary exposure to enemy fire served as an inspiration to his entire battalion. His valorous and intrepid actions reflect the utmost credit on him and uphold the noble traditions of the United States.

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11Bravo
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Matt Urban

Post by 11Bravo »

From a press report: March 6, 1995:
Retired Lieutenant Colonel Matt Urban -- perhaps the most decorated soldier in US history -- died of complications from a collapsed lung Saturday in Holland, Michigan. He was 75 and had won 29 medals for valor in World War II, three more than war hero Audie Murphy. The 1989 Guinness Book of World Records gave the record to Colonel Urban.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/murban.htm

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