Advance to Loenen Question

[designer1]

Ok - brand new player here. Have been playing Advance to Loenen, the little introductory scenario, over and over and over. AI has beat me so many times it's emailing me, begging to play something different. Surely, I am missing something but I can't figure out what. I've tried running like heck for the main objective, avoiding the enemy; I've tried broad front attacks, I've tried three separate columns, I've tried one feint and two "real" columns.

I always get very close to taking Loenen, but not close enough, and the enemy always rushes a small sneaky unit into the perimeter of the other objectives right before time is out. Am I hopeless? Will I get lots of invitations to play after posting this?

[MarkShot]

You can definitely get a decisive victory.

However, it should be noted that the scenario was developed for RDOA (and migrated to HTTR) before the order delays feature was added to the game. Thus, time is very tight.

You cannot afford to be wasting time.

I haven't played it in years, but I recall you need to concentrate your force and strike hard staying to the East.

Manual targetting arty and setting ROF=HIGH on the fire missions should help. All orders should have parameters adjusted for maximum effort.

[JeF]

Mark is right. The key is not wasting time and concentrating on the main objective : Loenen, 75 points worth. As Mark said, try first with no or small order delay.

Now, this is not per-se a little introductory scenario. Even though it is short, limited and the first on the alpabetical list. It's a tough little nut to crack. I remember loosing it at least 20 times on the second RdoA demo before finding the key. That event finally decided me to buy the game. Hence my signature. [:)]

Recommended scenarios to begin with (with recommended side) :
- Pl on the Popenberg (axis),
- Dutch Delay (allies then axis),
- Joe's Bridge (allies),
- Air Landing Assault (allies),
- Raid on Renkum (allies then axis),

And then I recommend the Nijmegen Historical Campaign to start with longer battles. 5 intense days and not so difficult. I can win it. [;)]

I hope this helps,

JeF.

[MarkShot]

I wasn't suggesting to reduce order delays, but just to remember that the scenario was actually designed pre-introduction of order delays. It can be won with Order Delays = Painfully Realistic, but requires perfect execution.

I was tempted to go back and play it again today and produce a Reader's Digest AAR. However, I should play some COTA instead. The life of a beta tester is so demanding.

[designer1]

Hey. thanks to all for the replies. Not only a great game but a great community.

[simovitch]

I tried this one a few times and had no luck as well. Although I am somewhat of a noob here I think I got the jist of it (intuitive with 35 years of wargaming).

Then I tried clicking the regimental HQ and one-click attack on the 75VP location, and watched the AI score a marginal victory [X(].

I had a similar experience with "PI on the Popenberg" but got an even better result than Loenen with a one-click attack on the objective.

Definitely mixed feelings here... happy that the AI can coordinate an attack so well, but indignant that it does it better than my (supposed) well-thought out attack.

I tried the same experiment on a more complex battle and the attacking AI suffered a defeat. Happily It seems that this method will not work all the time, and the player's input is definitely essential for the larger campaigns.

Running out of Historical battles now. must... have... COTA[:@]

[JeF]

The AI of HttR is quite capable, yes.
Fortunately, as the game is very flexible, you can choose the best level of control and command you see fit for each scenario, not only to win, but to have fun.

JeF.

[Praesidium]

You have to get on the move to Loenen ASAP. Force march your units and move your companies individually to get to the edge of the woods about 2K south east of Loenen.
Select a detailed route along paths/woods along far east edge of map to avoid contact during 1st half of game. Move Fastest - quickest route - order one unit at a time to avoid slow overwatch advance.

[akileez]

Hi, I started playing the bigger scenarios when I first got the game in my eagerness to refight the historical campaigns about which I'm a bit of a history buff. So tonight - in an effort to aid you newer folks, I decided to try out the first scenario which I never played before. I tried it twice... first one I got a marginal vicory- getting all objectives, but not securing all of them. The second try I got a decisive victory and I've attached an outline/diagram of how I did it in this and my next 2 posts.
First is my AAR.....

[akileez]

Here's my plan. I like to micro manage. Giving a waypoint order to a regiment sized force doesn't thrill me personally. Prior to clicking the start arrow, first make way points, as you can see I did this for each battalion and also the HQ force. When moving overland, I changed the move type to shortest so that movement wouldn't deviate onto roads... using the roads, I used quick movement type.... the final waypoints were Attack mode with maximim aggro/casualties/firepower.

The numbers represent each of the Airborne battalions and the planned routes. 1st Battalion+ regiment Artillery would assault 2 objectives while the rest of the force headed for Loenen.

The stars are where major actions took place. Note the powerful German units in the woods I took care to avoid fighting and moved between them. 3rd Battalion messed up, getting embroiled in a bitter fight at the rear of the main left flank column in the woods by left-most star, and were unable to contribute to taking any objectives. However its mortar platoon and the regt.mortars helped 1st Btn. achieve their 2 objectives and fending off counter attacks. The dotted blue line is the AT unit speeding to the rear of the Germans harassing 1st Btn's last objective. I was unable to secure it however since unseen Germans were lurking nearby in the woods. See next post pic. on that.

My artillery unit moved behind 1st battalion at some distance with my intention of using it to provide covering fire, then in the later stages as a close support unit [400men is an impressive force], but I booboo'd miscalculating their speed through the woods, in effect they hardly fired ANY support nor were used in direct support in the games later stages.

So, other than 3rd Battalion's slugfest the rest of the force quickly overwhelmed their opposition.2nd Battalion and HQ had the 'easiest' assignment apparently.

[akileez]

Here are the final positions in the review shot.

[akileez]

ORIGINAL: JeF

Mark is right. The key is not wasting time and concentrating on the main objective : Loenen, 75 points worth. As Mark said, try first with no or small order delay.

..............
JeF.

I have to say, when I played the scenario [see post above] I found that even though I set orders delay to painfully realistic the Paras flew off to start their mission very quickly. Perhaps this is because the chain of command is at most Regimental level.

[JeF]

ORIGINAL: akileez
I have to say, when I played the scenario [see post above] I found that even though I set orders delay to painfully realistic the Paras flew off to start their mission very quickly. Perhaps this is because the chain of command is at most Regimental level.

No, this is because there is no orders delay during the first 60 minutes, to take into account that the plan is build before you hit the start button. Afterwards, a change in the plan might take less time due to the small chain of command, yes. But I'm not a specialist.

Nice plan BTW. I remember having tried something similar once, with RdoA. Failed miserabily as usual. [8|] The AI managed to put a very strong delay action along the road in the woods south-east of Loenen. Very impressive.

A+

JeF.

[akileez]

ORIGINAL: JeF

ORIGINAL: akileez
I have to say, when I played the scenario [see post above] I found that even though I set orders delay to painfully realistic the Paras flew off to start their mission very quickly. Perhaps this is because the chain of command is at most Regimental level.

No, this is because there is no orders delay during the first 60 minutes, to take into account that the plan is build before you hit the start button. Afterwards, a change in the plan might take less time due to the small chain of command, yes. But I'm not a specialist.

Nice plan BTW. I remember having tried something similar once, with RdoA. Failed miserabily as usual. [8|] The AI managed to put a very strong delay action along the road in the woods south-east of Loenen. Very impressive.

A+

JeF.

ok JeF, thanks on the no orders delay in 1st 60 minutes thing; this was actuallly the first time I realised to make the pre-start movement waypints before starting!

My confidence was in the firepower an advancing US para battalion can inflict versus an equally sized force [even if SS]. Granted a grinding battle occurs, but once a roadblock is pushed aside, its a smooth walk onto the next objective- especially with the 2 U.S Btns.+HQ force. Considering I screwed up with 3rd Btn. not disengaging properly in the woods fight and the regt. artillery was largely unused through-out things went luckily well for me anyway. [:D]

[RedDevil]

Interesting... I have played this scenario a number of times, but my plan has always been quite different.

This is how I got a decisive
A reinforced 1.504 (+Eng + mortar unit and coy from 2.504) is dispatched to the East through the woods bypassing the objective on the road to Loenen and ready to attack. Movement parameters are Fast, min aggro, rapid fire rate, min losses to make sure they don't engage.
The balance of 2.504 takes care of the road blocks and eventually will have a go to the objective in the middle of the map
3.504 will attack the objective on the road to Loenen. Again need to keep the enemy busy so fast pace and all the parameters maxed out.
The AT unit will prevent reinforcements to reach Loenen from the West (hopefully).
The Arty needs to move a bit north to make sure that the area north of Loenen is in range.

When in position I will micro manage also the mortars.

Here's a pic of the intial moves. situation at 12:30 and at 18:01 will follow shortly.

Cheers,

RedDevil

[RedDevil]

The situation at 12:30 (roughly midway through the scenario is that of the picture:

- 932 men of the reinforced 1.504 are ready to jump out of the woods and get to Loenen, but the forced march has taken its toll.
- the road block west of Loenen is in place and so are the mortars
- the 3.504 is doing a good job.
- Not so much the 2.504 which is still trying to get rid of the roadblocks but ordered them to try to contest the objective in the middle of the map.

Last couple of screenshots at scenario end might have to wait until tomorrow...

Regards,

RedDevil

[RedDevil]

Hello, to finish off here's the situation around Loenen at the end of the scenario.


Cheers,

Red Devil

[RedDevil]

And the AAR
[center][/center]
All in all I was lucky and eventually I could have done with a weaker task force to take Loenen. I could have also tried not to fatigue the 1.504 with the foced march but it paid off.

I have an AAR for Crunch Time as Allied as well on my computer. I might post it one of these days since I am extremely proud of myself [:D]

Time to go!

Have a nice weekend,

RedDevil

* edited to center the pic on the post

[akileez]

Nice approach RD! And you took less casualties than me.... your troops will like you better for that [:D].

[*budd*]

Hi,
Great Game, having loads of fun and it's only costing me a little sleep[:D] Just finished Advance to Loenen it's my first attempt at it and my 6th battle all together. Working up from the smaller to larger battles, playing realistic order delay not sure i'm up too painfully realistic yet. that order delay does take some getting used too, no more changing on the fly in an instant. Most if not all the wargames i've played just dont force you to think like that, my arty has bailed me out a number of times already. Here's how i played it out.

I split my force in half, i sent 2nd and 3rd bn up the western road. i forced marched on assault task, in arrowhead formation ,max aggro, rapid fire, high casualties.

1st bn and the HQ was sent up eastern road forced march, low aggro.

Plan was to screen any blocking force on the eastern road and always to keep the HQ bn moving toward Loenen. use 1st bn to attack the first eastern objective and hopefully get done fast to assist in the assault on loenen. the 376 arty would stay where it started and provide fire support up the roads along with any airstrikes.

2nd and 3rd were to blast thier way up the western road, secure the western objective, block any enemy coming in from the west. i knew i'd have to adjust the plan as i got closer to the 2 lower objectives. With the time crunch and order delay the adjustments would have to be timely.

2nd and 3rd did quite well and blasted the blocking force from thier path and in no time were assaulting the western objective, while 1st and HQ screened the blocking force on the eastern road,soon 1st was assaulting the lower eastern objective with the help of HQ as it passed on it's way to loenen. Of course arty and airstrikes helped. as i was closer to loenen i had more intel and knew that Hq bn alone couldn't secure leonen. so i ordered 2 coys from 1stbn to defend at the lower eastern objective, and sent the balance of 1st and HQ bn on to loenen.

once 2nd and 3rd had dislodged the defenders they were set to defend the western objective with the appropriate frontage and depth to secure it. i did take 3 coys from 2nd and 3rd and forced march them just a little north and around to bail out the coys left to defend and assault the lower eastern objective.

time was starting to get short and the western objective was the only thing secured. HQ and the balance of 1st were stalmated at loenen and the 2 coys were holding there own, but had no chance to secure the objective unless the 3 coys arrived from 2nd and 3rd in time.

the cool part was i let the balance of 1st bn hold the assault line and put HQ bn with a right echelon formation assault order, max everything. it was very cool to see them shake out into formation and hit the enemy in it's left flank and with all the arty i could apply the enemy all started to route and with 2 minutes on the clock i secured loenen[:D]
O yea those 3 coys made it in time to hit the enemy at the lower eastern objective in the backside and secure that objective. I also lost control on the western objective once when the enemy counter attacked it, but no real danger there and no enemies came in from the west.

Forgive the crude description, hope you get the picture. I don't know if this has been mentioned before but i'd like to ask if someone more able in AAR's could post a detailed HOW TO DO AN AAR guide, the tools you can use, how to do those arrows, ect. i took a few sreeens but when i went to clip board to paste there was only the last one. Just like to know the process [in detail please] to make a better AAR, i've read quite a few real good AAR's in my lurking time here. If someone had the time and would be so kind. thank you. hope the picture turns out.