RAF squadron sizes

[DBS]

Is there any scope, given that changes to the exe appear possible, to allow a greater variety of squadron strength for RAF and CW units in BTR?

At present in BTR, we have two sizes - recce and NI come in at 12 ready aircraft, while fighter and bombers squadrons are 24 ready plus 3 reserves. For the BTR period, this is seriously wrong for fighters, but perhaps OK for BC squadrons (which by 1945 could be up to 36 aircraft strong, with as many as could possibly be made ready flying on most ops).

Ever since 1940, the aim of an RAF fighter squadron was to try to generate 12-16 aircraft for any squadron sized task. As more aircraft and pilots became available, reserves of both would be increased. But one is hard-pushed to find instances when a squadron with, say, 24 pilots would try to put that number in the air at the same time. Rather, it gave a comfortable margin to allow for losses, training, leave, sickness, etc, and gave an increasingly safe guarantee that even after a bad day, the unit could still perform properly the next morning rather than sit around a few days waiting for the replacement system to cough up new bodies and/or airframes. And airframes on squadron strength would outnumber pilots.

Thus at present, RAF fighters, if they have not rested for a few days, fly massively overstrength. But because they have far too few spare airframes, they then need to rest again several days before being able to fly at (over-)full strength. And note that airframes tend to be the pinch-point in the game in generating ready aircraft - too many damaged after just flying one uneventful sweep, let alone combat. If we cut ready pilots to say 12 or 16, but kept airframes at say 18 or 24, we should be able:
a) to generate 12 aircraft just about every day, rain or shine
b) reduce the number of RAF fighters in the air at any one time, but gaining a more even level of effort from them
c) reduce the number of pilot slots taken up

That said, I strongly believe that we should be restoring the TacR sqns to the game which JCL largely removed during his most recent OB mods. I wholly respect JCL's decision, and understood his "strategic focus of game" argument, but the problem is that all the German defenders remain, yet no longer have to devote any resources to the tactical raiders.

David

[von Shagmeister]

Hi DBS,

Again we are in agreement. I don't know if you recall but a couple of years ago I was saying that RAF fighter Sqns as represented at present have far too many a/c available for operations. I haven't been able to find the correct establishment for a fighter Sqn for the start of the BTR period but i think it was ~16 a/c with a similar amount of pilots. For heavy bomber Sqns the establishment is 24+3 for a 3 Flt Sqn and 16+2 for a 2 Flt Sqn.

Do your sources state what the establishment was for fighter Sqn during Summer 43?

von Shagmeister

[Hard Sarge]

Hi DBS
(check your inbox)

so, you think a change to 15th AF squadron size would work better ?

that should be easy to do (or you you think the unit size is okay, but we need to limit the pilot numbers assigned ?)

No Hassle for the other units right now, the changes to the last OOB were made because of the plane/pilot slot limits, so a lot of units were cut back

we looking at double/triple the plane/pilot slots now, which hopefully mean a return to more of a OOB 105, then OOB 106 (hehehe, a new and improved 105, did I say, Improved)

[von Shagmeister]

I believe USAAF Fighter Sqn establishments for the start of the BTR period were 25 a/c (later 28) with a similar number of pilots, normally with 16 a/c available for ops. Isn't this the structure that already exists at the moment (remember I rarely play as the Allies)

If you look in the top pilots thread on the BTR forum you will see that the FG pilot listings I posted a while back show ~25-28 pilots per Sqn + HQ Flt (if they weren't lost in the hack!) so that supports the above structure.

von Shagmeister

[AmiralLaurent]

If changes are made in the code, the best way to modelize it would be have UK squadrons with 24 AC and 20-30 pilots (contrary to what is said above, usually number of pilots exceeded the number of AC) but only 12 will fly on any raid.

That need two code changes:
1) an unit will send only a limited number of AC on a raid, not all available.
2) pilots will be chosen randomly from the available lists, rather than taking the 12 first. Or better, the 12 pilots will the lowest fatigue will be sent for the raid.

[DBS]

Have not yet been able to pin down a definitive establishment figure for RAF fighter sqns in 1943-45. However, for 1938 to 1940, can offer the following, given implicitly and explicitly in Vol 1 of the official history of Fighter Command by T C G James:

1938 Munich Crisis - every fighter sqn appears to have had an Initial Equipment (IE) of 14 aircraft each; number of pilots not given. A further 75% of IE (in other words about 10.5 aircraft at 14 IE, 12 at 16 IE) is supposed to be held as either ready reserves on squadrons or undergoing workshop maintenance at Maintenance Units.

1939, October-November, as thought is given to sending additional aircraft to the continent without wanting to deploy the entire administrative tail in each squadron, the planning revolves around sending 16 IE aircraft and 20 pilots per squadron.

June 1940 - 16 IE aircraft and 22 pilots.

This figure of 16 aircraft with either 20 or 22 pilots (and in June 1940 squadrons simply were not up to establishment on pilot numbers) ties in with the decision to allocate an extra 4 aircraft to as many fighter squadrons as possible as an emergency measure - ie provide every possible pilot with an operationally ready aircraft.

As I say, later on in war less clear at this moment but... On 27 October 1943, 249 Sqn deployed from Malta to Grottaglie. It was trying to deploy 16 aircraft (on the day one went u/s and had to follow a little later) each obviously with a pilot. Mention is made of spare pilots (but not aircraft) following on behind with other squadron personnel. But of course, by this stage we are talking about a developed expeditionary capability. Squadrons are pared down to their operational strength, and as much of the support function as possible - including spare aircraft - is pooled into servicing wings. So I think what we have is that whereas in 1940, sitting on a home base, a squadron has not just, hopefully, up to sixteen aircraft ready for ops, but also perhaps 12 others on its books either being serviced on the airfield or off at an MU, later in the war the squadron sticks to its sixteen but swaps these in and out with the local servicing wing to ensure it stays up to strength. I am not 100% certain on this yet, but need to do further digging.

David

[von Shagmeister]

Hi Dave,

I've seen figures stating 16 as the establishment of a/c for RAF fighter Sqns during summer 43 but have seen no such figures for pilots. I have however seen a number of photos showing the pilot roster for various fighter Sqns and this appears to show a maximum of 15 pilots per Flt plus presumably the C/O.

In one photo the a/c serviceabilty lists are partially shown. Serials run from A-Z (26 a/c) but 16 are listed as not held. Of the remaining 10, 8 are servicealble and 2 U/S. I don't know if the not held a/c are actually on the Sqn's books and away on deep maintenance or just blanks.

And checking through a number of Sqn ORBs I can say there appear to be more that 16 pilots on the books of most fighter Sqns.

So this would tie with what you stated above.

Regards

von Shagmeister

[wernerpruckner]

Hi Laurent,

welcome back to BTR world [:)]

Werner

[Hard Sarge]

Well as I offered before
how about we go with 12 ready 16 total (not sure if you meant the added 4 made it 16 or if it should be 20 total ?)
buildable to 20 pilots per Squadrons for 1940 (heavy losses in France, Dunkrik, Phase I of BoB)

in 1941, we up it to 16 ready, with 20-24 total, increase pilots to 24

we can debate what the level should be for 43 (should we stick with the 24-3 or drop back to 16-8 ?)