AI for MWiF - France
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
AI for MWiF - France
When playing France I tend to use the uses the “speed hump” strategy. I know that Germany will get to Paris – the only question is ‘When?’ – so I just want to put as many units in their way as possible. Since I don’t expect France to survive till 1941 so I don’t do any Naval builds. The chances are quite high that France will collapse before anything can be commissioned so why waste the points? The French Fleet moves to the Med and waits for a chance to swap battleships with the Italians.
In Sep/Oct ’39 I build a HQ. The rest of production is split between INF and FTR units. Its d@mn near impossible to launch a successful counterattack on the Germans so what I’m looking for is the best defensive bang for the buck. INF stack to the East of Paris with FTR and HQ (stacked separately) to the West. I also try to maintain some tactical air factors free to throw in when Germany finally gets adjacent to Paris.
There’s not much to this strategy, but that’s because France doesn’t really have many options. I do consider the all-out attack on Italy idea but that relies on Italy screwing up its deployments and leaving itself open to an Allied invasion. Doesn’t happen often.
In Sep/Oct ’39 I build a HQ. The rest of production is split between INF and FTR units. Its d@mn near impossible to launch a successful counterattack on the Germans so what I’m looking for is the best defensive bang for the buck. INF stack to the East of Paris with FTR and HQ (stacked separately) to the West. I also try to maintain some tactical air factors free to throw in when Germany finally gets adjacent to Paris.
There’s not much to this strategy, but that’s because France doesn’t really have many options. I do consider the all-out attack on Italy idea but that relies on Italy screwing up its deployments and leaving itself open to an Allied invasion. Doesn’t happen often.
/Greyshaft
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RE: AI for MWiF - France
ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
When playing France I tend to use the uses the “speed hump” strategy. I know that Germany will get to Paris – the only question is ‘When?’ – so I just want to put as many units in their way as possible. Since I don’t expect France to survive till 1941 so I don’t do any Naval builds. The chances are quite high that France will collapse before anything can be commissioned so why waste the points? The French Fleet moves to the Med and waits for a chance to swap battleships with the Italians.
In Sep/Oct ’39 I build a HQ. The rest of production is split between INF and FTR units. Its d@mn near impossible to launch a successful counterattack on the Germans so what I’m looking for is the best defensive bang for the buck. INF stack to the East of Paris with FTR and HQ (stacked separately) to the West. I also try to maintain some tactical air factors free to throw in when Germany finally gets adjacent to Paris.
There’s not much to this strategy, but that’s because France doesn’t really have many options. I do consider the all-out attack on Italy idea but that relies on Italy screwing up its deployments and leaving itself open to an Allied invasion. Doesn’t happen often.
You have not idea how happy it makes me that at least some of the strategic planning is easy.
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
You have not idea how happy it makes me that at least some of the strategic planning is easy.
Mind you, I did play in more than one game where France never fell:
1. As the Axis I followed up a one turn Conquest of Poland with a Nov/Dec '39 DOW on Russia since Josef had done a Sep/Oct 39 DOW on Japan and was fully engaged in the east. I was hoping for a knockout blow but didn't quite get there. I managed to take Smolensk and actually got a Panzer adjacent to Paris at one point, but by mid 1940 the writing was on the wall...
2. One game as the CW when my French ally saw the Germans roll absolutely abysmal dice three impulses in a row and impale the flower of the Wermacht on French bayonets. By Sep/Oct 1940 the Germans had rebuilt somewhat but Italy was still neutral and the French were running out of land units to build. When France laid down a new battleship the Axis resigned.
Doubtless there are other Axis horror stories.
/Greyshaft
RE: AI for MWiF - France
It is not as easy as it seems to take out france in 1940 especially if playing with the 1D10 table but even with it it is not a given.
As I see it france ahve two different startegies.
1) Delay Germany as long as possibly and inflict as much damage on him as possible.
2) Get as big Free France as possible (this is mostly for playing LocVichy; but even without you can transfer your TRS, and lighter ships to the countries most likely to get FF.
Focussing on 1).
1939.
First impulse send a small fleet of fast ships to the Baltic to sink the german convoys if he have left them unprotected. The ship will die but then they atleast will not turn against you later.
If Germany have left nothing in the west, you might want to put four corps over the border to germany and align Yugoslavia. If he has the garrision units and a corp or two there don't bother.
You might want to declare war on Italy together with CW if there is some really good Italian targets. Like one transport in east africa and the other in reach for a portstrike.
Also prepare for a france first strategy and groundstrike any german HQ's that are setup to phase you. Place fast units around Lille that can rech the Dyle even if the weather turns rainy. You have to stop germany at the dyle if he attacks belgium in 1939.
1940 Defend at all cost.
Insist on a big BEF, atleast Gort and two corps but preferably two british HQ's. Britain shall cover atleast two hexes.
Always always leave a unit in Paris if the axis is on the border to france, I have seen Paris fall in one german impulse, when Paris have been left unguarded. (An offensive chit on Rundstedt, a doubled para drops on paris, blitz on a clear hex, and doubled units overrun the second line of defenders. The para will be in supply and vichy declared.)
Don't leave the italian front too soon, rather use the maginot line troops. Only when certain of losing the battle over france allow the italians to walk throughthe mountains.
Setup a second line of defence after france have fallen. this includes units in toulouse and lyon. Don't make it to easy to conquer you.
1941
Same as 1940 if you survived this long you played good and Germany needs to finish you off before US or USSR enters the war.
1942
If you're still alive you might start planning an offensive together with the rest of the wallies.
In case of a barbarossa 1940.
YOu might want to spend 1940 and 41 on a stratbombcampaign in germany and doing maximum lendlease to russia. Also an italian campaign can be considered.
Free france should really try to coordinate with US and CW and can be considered a minor under their control
As I see it france ahve two different startegies.
1) Delay Germany as long as possibly and inflict as much damage on him as possible.
2) Get as big Free France as possible (this is mostly for playing LocVichy; but even without you can transfer your TRS, and lighter ships to the countries most likely to get FF.
Focussing on 1).
1939.
First impulse send a small fleet of fast ships to the Baltic to sink the german convoys if he have left them unprotected. The ship will die but then they atleast will not turn against you later.
If Germany have left nothing in the west, you might want to put four corps over the border to germany and align Yugoslavia. If he has the garrision units and a corp or two there don't bother.
You might want to declare war on Italy together with CW if there is some really good Italian targets. Like one transport in east africa and the other in reach for a portstrike.
Also prepare for a france first strategy and groundstrike any german HQ's that are setup to phase you. Place fast units around Lille that can rech the Dyle even if the weather turns rainy. You have to stop germany at the dyle if he attacks belgium in 1939.
1940 Defend at all cost.
Insist on a big BEF, atleast Gort and two corps but preferably two british HQ's. Britain shall cover atleast two hexes.
Always always leave a unit in Paris if the axis is on the border to france, I have seen Paris fall in one german impulse, when Paris have been left unguarded. (An offensive chit on Rundstedt, a doubled para drops on paris, blitz on a clear hex, and doubled units overrun the second line of defenders. The para will be in supply and vichy declared.)
Don't leave the italian front too soon, rather use the maginot line troops. Only when certain of losing the battle over france allow the italians to walk throughthe mountains.
Setup a second line of defence after france have fallen. this includes units in toulouse and lyon. Don't make it to easy to conquer you.
1941
Same as 1940 if you survived this long you played good and Germany needs to finish you off before US or USSR enters the war.
1942
If you're still alive you might start planning an offensive together with the rest of the wallies.
In case of a barbarossa 1940.
YOu might want to spend 1940 and 41 on a stratbombcampaign in germany and doing maximum lendlease to russia. Also an italian campaign can be considered.
Free france should really try to coordinate with US and CW and can be considered a minor under their control
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RE: AI for MWiF - France
All excellent advice and very useful for the AIO. Thanks.
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Actually, I was thinking that programming an AI for France may not be as easy as it seems. Preparing France for the transition to Vichy status may be a tricky thing to pull off.
When "the writing is on the wall", evacuating as much Land/Air/Naval units to areas that have a good chance of becoming Free French is a strategy I try. (Admittedly, I am not a WiF guru, but I like to base French subs and cruisers as far east as possible during the setup. Then they rebase to New Caledonia and Fiji (? whichever French Island in the Pacific has the Major port...) to become Free French. Everything else stays ETO until it is time to flee, then rebase to Martinique or Central Africa and hope for good rolls...
Again, my strategy may not be acceptable to folks who are more experienced at this. But I think the AI might need to have some kind of programming for this transition turn.
When "the writing is on the wall", evacuating as much Land/Air/Naval units to areas that have a good chance of becoming Free French is a strategy I try. (Admittedly, I am not a WiF guru, but I like to base French subs and cruisers as far east as possible during the setup. Then they rebase to New Caledonia and Fiji (? whichever French Island in the Pacific has the Major port...) to become Free French. Everything else stays ETO until it is time to flee, then rebase to Martinique or Central Africa and hope for good rolls...
Again, my strategy may not be acceptable to folks who are more experienced at this. But I think the AI might need to have some kind of programming for this transition turn.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Building some armor is good too to help defend against the devastating german blitzes. A MECH is enough. Otherwise I agree on the rest.In Sep/Oct ’39 I build a HQ. The rest of production is split between INF and FTR units. Its d@mn near impossible to launch a successful counterattack on the Germans so what I’m looking for is the best defensive bang for the buck. INF stack to the East of Paris with FTR and HQ (stacked separately) to the West. I also try to maintain some tactical air factors free to throw in when Germany finally gets adjacent to Paris.
I'd add that counterattacking must always be checked for because whennever the Germans fail and disrupt there possibly might be some extra damage to deal. I also seen incautious Germans advancing too deep within the French, and the French managing to cut the main spearhead from the rest by counterattacking the rear units.
Also, I think that the French should bring back to France most of the troops that are in Northern Africa with his lone TRS. IMO, the only unit he should leave behind is the weakest INF to defend Algiers, in case the Euro Axis are after a Gibraltar strategy, to prevent them to conquer Tunisia & Algeria too easily.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
I hate suicide things like that.1939.
First impulse send a small fleet of fast ships to the Baltic to sink the german convoys if he have left them unprotected. The ship will die but then they atleast will not turn against you later.
More than that, France is able to try decide which ships will go to Free France by sending them to Central Africa when the time comes. So why waste them instead of using them for useful CP escort in the whole West Africa Coast ?
RE: AI for MWiF - France
I wish to insist on this because it is particulary true, and often overlooked by French players.Setup a second line of defence after france have fallen. this includes units in toulouse and lyon. Don't make it to easy to conquer you.
Especially regarding the areas in south western France to block the Germans on the possible road to Gibraltar.
If it can oblige them to Vichyfy & Collapse immediately, this is a welcomed double US Entry check.
If the German wish to conquer France instead, France must make them pay in time and units, especialy time.
I'd end saying that time is the most precious thing for Germany in 1939-1941, so the Alliez need to make Germany waste Time. Time is impulses.
Cheers !!
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Bump. I didn't want this to fall off the end of the thread list and it might be handy to make it more visible for newcomers to read.
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
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RE: AI for MWiF - France
you'll need completely different AI routines for good play using 1d10 vs 2d10. you could save a lot of time by writing AI for only one combat table. the cutting edge of WiF is 2d10.
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RE: AI for MWiF - France
I see no difference between the two CRTs from the AI's point of view. They both translate into probabilities of different outcomes. It is the probabilities of outcomes that the AI uses to decide whether to attack or if a defensive position needs strengthening, etc..ORIGINAL: trees trees
you'll need completely different AI routines for good play using 1d10 vs 2d10. you could save a lot of time by writing AI for only one combat table. the cutting edge of WiF is 2d10.
Steve
Perfection is an elusive goal.
Perfection is an elusive goal.
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RE: AI for MWiF - France
large effect on build strategies though. and tactical deployments. (Blitz bonuses are an optional with 1d10) Air support is more important with 2d10.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Falling off the end of the list. Time to bump it for the new people.
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
RE: AI for MWiF - France
I always build the Arm and Mech to kill one kill stack with its flank exposed. The killing of one or more, mech or Arm, is my goal in this attack, and the killing of these units will cost the German player dearly. Also i move Richelieu and other surviving 5 movers to the Pacific as soon as possible to become FF.
The winner of a battle may not be the one who wins the War.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Not having all the BB in France at Vichy creation can be a big problem : possibly no Free France.ORIGINAL: Graf Zeppelin
I always build the Arm and Mech to kill one kill stack with its flank exposed. The killing of one or more, mech or Arm, is my goal in this attack, and the killing of these units will cost the German player dearly. Also i move Richelieu and other surviving 5 movers to the Pacific as soon as possible to become FF.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
yes but France have some 4 move BB, so no problem there, Richelieu is just so good to have for the Allied in the pacific...[:D]
The winner of a battle may not be the one who wins the War.
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Not having Free France is a big problem for me.ORIGINAL: Graf Zeppelin
yes but France have some 4 move BB, so no problem there, Richelieu is just so good to have for the Allied in the pacific...[:D]
I think you missunderstood what I meant.
It's not the loss of a combat ship that is bothering. I refer to the asterisked remark and the last line of :
Quote rom the rules :
******************************************
17.2 Determine control
(...)
Free-French Chart*
Administration group Die
Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia 10
French West Africa 9-10
Syria 9-10
Indo-China 9-10
Madagascar 8-10
All Asian map minors & territories 7-10
French Equatorial Africa 3-10
All Pacific map minors & territories 2-10
All other territories & minors 9-10
* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.
(...)
Free France must now choose one of its remaining minor countries as its new home nation. If Free France controls no minor countries, she suffers the effect of complete conquest (see 13.7.1) immediately.
******************************************
RE: AI for MWiF - France
As the Germans what I want to see most in France is for the French to pick up the attack dice. I might even leave an ARM all by itself to tempt them. With the 2d10 it's not very easy for the French to take one out...if it looks dangerous for the panzers, the Germans can probably call the blitz table and lower their risk.
But I do 'borrow' from the CW to build the French MECH and extra anti-tank assets for defensive purposes.
But I do 'borrow' from the CW to build the French MECH and extra anti-tank assets for defensive purposes.
plant trees
RE: AI for MWiF - France
Yes but you still get the pacific on 4+ and Africa on 5+, so in my opinion its worth it.
The winner of a battle may not be the one who wins the War.