Vanishing Axis players

[bfcj]

Is it just me or have others experienced where, when playing the allies, that once the tide starts to turn in your favor the Axis the axis player just drops out w/out so much as a "bye!"? I understand that the game isn't as fun for the axis once all hope for victory is lost, but that really isn't fair to the allied player. I personally would not quit unless my opponent was okay with it. I certainly wouldn't just stop playing w/out a word.

[Taxman66]

See the following:
tm.asp?m=4456700

[Taxman66]

Actually, I had another thread a bit more closer to your subject that made come up with that one. I'll see if I can find it.

[bfcj]

Even with those conditions though there would still be a point at which the axis side would conclude that they were not going to win, and therefore such players would still quit.

Leaderboards might help -- there would be motivation to try for a draw vs. forfeitting.

[crispy131313]

Right now I have a condition that Germany wins if they hold Berlin December, 1945 which is hopefully worth the Axis player fighting onward for.

[bfcj]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Right now I have a condition that Germany wins if they hold Berlin December, 1945 which is hopefully worth the Axis player fighting onward for.

Is that for a customized version? Or just an understanding between you and your opponent?

[Taxman66]

That's for his mod.

It's a bit of the same issue though.

The main problem is the victory conditions.
The vanilla game requires the Axis to win the war.
This in turn means that Axis players have to maximize their High Water potential and damn long term consequences. So Axis research tends to end in mid/late 1942; Some Axis DE choices (e.g. Italy forges attacking Greece) are picked purely for short(er) term benefit; etc...

Then if the Axis player realizes he can't achieve a win, to him the game is over as a loss. No sense in playing it out, as Berlin/Rome falling in 1947 is the same as them falling in 1944.

Having said that, there should be a least be a courteous offer of resignation.

[bfcj]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
The main problem is the victory conditions.
The vanilla game requires the Axis to win the war.

Ah, I see, I misread the manual. I suppose that allowing for a draw would help. Well, then, as long as it is counted as a loss (vs. just "unfinished"). Still, resigning would be nice. That at least give the allied player the chance to review the map.

[Sugar]

A draw is already possible. The victory conditions are more than fair, other than the VietCong the Axis had to win, nobody would have negotiated peace terms with Nazis. Besides, not only Axis players quit without reporting.

We're all playing for fun, what's the point in forcing your opponent to continue when joy has ended? At least quitting would be honorable, otherwise the loser is possibly noted as winning side.

[bfcj]

I have no problem with an opponent resigning, only with them just "quitting" (ie, they stop taking their turn, leaving the game in an unfinished state). I currently have three games in that state now. No one wins every game, just admit you lost and move on.

[bfcj]

We're all playing for fun, what's the point in forcing your opponent to continue when joy has ended?

The problem is that for the axis "fun" is the early years, when you're destroying your opponents forces and devising different approaches for victory. The fun doesn't start for the allied player until later, clawing Europe back from the retreating axis armies, trying to take Berlin before the clock runs out. The first half can be damned frustrating!

Maybe the answer is that we all play axis.

[sPzAbt653]

Nobody has fun playing defense? That's missing most of the game's fun. Anybody can overrun Europe as the Axis, the challenge is defending what you've taken. The Allies have fun holding on until they can gain superiority. That is Grand Strategy! Anyone who quits before the game is over should be red listed, it's disrespectful, a waste of other players time, and quite silly. Another fine reason not to play against humans!

[Sugar]

Anyone who quits before the game is over should be red listed, it's disrespectful, a waste of other players time, and quite silly.

Like all the grandmasters in chess, when they're giving up?

[bfcj]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Anyone who quits before the game is over should be red listed, it's disrespectful, a waste of other players time, and quite silly.

Like all the grandmasters in chess, when they're giving up?

That's apples and oranges. Chess is an even game at the start.

[bfcj]

And for the chess analogy, I doubt a grand master would concede when a stalemate was possible.
[:'(]

[Sugar]

Really? Both sides have to do the right things to be able to succeed, the Axis by attacking and the Allies by delaying and counterattacking in the first stage of the war. Both should be fun; but the Axis is condemned to succeed. They have to keep going until they reach all of their objectives, otherwise both players know war is lost for the Axis. No point in continuing when the outcome is clear.

Perhaps you should play more Axis? As I already mentioned, it`s not related to on specific side.

[Rannug61]

I always fight to the end if my opponent wants to to have his fun. I like the same done to me but if you just see it as a game I can understand if people are resigning. I play to win but it can also be seen as a simulation of WW2-Europe and from that point of view I can enjoy a game even if it just to see how long one can survive.

If I play against Sugar as Allied and he hasn't won before 1945, I would see that as a morale victory[;)]

My one and only game vs Sugar was lost in 1942 or maybe it was in 43...

[Trump2016]

So it sounds like the game will end in 1941 or early 1942 one way or the other when playing against a human opponent?

[Rannug61]

I have had games that I thought was lost in 41/42 but I won in the end by never giving up. Your opponent may make mistakes even if he has the upper hand early in the war.

[bfcj]

Don't get me wrong, if both sides start with that understanding then that is fine. I just find it annoying when I finally feel like I am getting the upper hand, that I might just be able to pull this out, and the turn notifications stop coming.