Turning off repair of China manpower sites

[dasboot1960]

I'm using Kull's scheme(Thank You)for initial Japanese moves in China(mostly to maximize economical garrisons, but I think I like the underlying offensive strategy if I'm reading it right)I'm stumped on turning of repair of manpower sites. I imagine it has to do with saving resources/HI, but are these of now value for LCU/replacement production?. Thanks to all responders!

[Kull]

Not really a big deal, but the idea is that supply is so precious in China, that you don't want to inadvertently waste any of it in repairing damaged manpower centers. Shutting all the repairs off on T1 means you don't have to think about it later.

[Uncivil Engineer]

In addition to China, I would turn off Manpower repair EVERYWHERE. And turn off Resource and LI repair everywhere; if you want to SELECTIVELY repair some of that later you can turn it back on.

[dasboot1960]

Thanks Kull! I figured something like that

Uncivil engineer - Thanks for the tip. I started with upgrades and replacements off, but I remember reading that the returns on LI repair are not great. It appears ditto for resources? Resources wou7ld not have occurred to me as they are a base industrial input, and won't I need to repair resources centers in the Indies and Malaya? Or do I recall reading somewhere that Japan actually starts with resource centers to suffice?

Thank you both!

[inqistor]

There is serious overproduction of manpower. Considering what players generally "spent" during whole game, 3 points per one center should suffice. Currently they produce 5 per day. So you don't need anything extra.

ORIGINAL: dasboot1960

I started with upgrades and replacements off, but I remember reading that the returns on LI repair are not great. It appears ditto for resources? Resources wou7ld not have occurred to me as they are a base industrial input, and won't I need to repair resources centers in the Indies and Malaya? Or do I recall reading somewhere that Japan actually starts with resource centers to suffice?

There is small shortage of Resources production, but what you catch at PI should seal that hole. In addition, you will get extra production in China, Malaya, Borneo etc. No need to repair anything there.

[Lokasenna]

Manpower may as well just not exist, in terms of actually producing anything.

[PaxMondo]

As Japan, you should ALWAYS turn off ALL repair. Then selectively turn on repair for individual factories/production as you see fit.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
As Japan, you should ALWAYS turn off ALL repair. Then selectively turn on repair for individual factories/production as you see fit.

QFT.
One unit repaired eats 1000 supply no matter what kind of on-map industry/resource/factory is repaired. And Japan should think about efficient supply usage from the start. This means no Manpower/Resources/LI should ever be repaired. HI should only be repaired if you can hold it and defend it from bombing for like 2 years+. Oil should be repaired as long as it is not under air raids. Refineries generally should not be repaired because you have an excess of them from the start, but sometimes e.g. with bad luck trashed Palembang you may want to.

I also turn off all expansions of bases/forts from the start and turn them on selectively - you don't want to build for the sake of building, using supply and paving way for future allied conquests

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Manpower may as well just not exist, in terms of actually producing anything.

Yup. I'm guessing, Japan can run out, if player at start of war turns on all replacements, and aggressively begin industry expansion, but only for few days.

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

One unit repaired eats 1000 supply no matter what kind of on-map industry/resource/factory is repaired. And Japan should think about efficient supply usage from the start. This means no Manpower/Resources/LI should ever be repaired. HI should only be repaired if you can hold it and defend it from bombing for like 2 years+.

LI will theoretically returns itself in around 3 years. The trick is to repair it, where Allies will not land, and where you will need extra supply in 1945.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
One unit repaired eats 1000 supply no matter what kind of on-map industry/resource/factory is repaired. And Japan should think about efficient supply usage from the start. This means no Manpower/Resources/LI should ever be repaired. HI should only be repaired if you can hold it and defend it from bombing for like 2 years+.

LI will theoretically returns itself in around 3 years. The trick is to repair it, where Allies will not land, and where you will need extra supply in 1945.

Yup, you are right. Very few points like that on the map though. Only Northern China comes to mind, and it is mostly for subsistence, not transporting this supply out (because wastage).
Unless you are sure you are playing well enough to go deep into 45, then Changsha area might be ok. And there is always the threat of air raids, so smaller bases are preferrable for such repairs

[Dili]

Maybe if divisions arrived with no squads manpower would be needed.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
One unit repaired eats 1000 supply no matter what kind of on-map industry/resource/factory is repaired. And Japan should think about efficient supply usage from the start. This means no Manpower/Resources/LI should ever be repaired. HI should only be repaired if you can hold it and defend it from bombing for like 2 years+.

LI will theoretically returns itself in around 3 years. The trick is to repair it, where Allies will not land, and where you will need extra supply in 1945.

Yup, you are right. Very few points like that on the map though. Only Northern China comes to mind, and it is mostly for subsistence, not transporting this supply out (because wastage).
Unless you are sure you are playing well enough to go deep into 45, then Changsha area might be ok. And there is always the threat of air raids, so smaller bases are preferrable for such repairs

+1

And you have to factor in using supply in the VERY early game when most players are supply limited … meaning you are already not doing everything you would like to as you simply do not have the supply to do it.
Now, you want to expend more supply on a possible return 3 years later .... very dicey proposition for me. however, I will also note that this is hotly debated by very good players, so just my opinion.

[rustysi]

Don't know if I'm a good player, but I am one who totally disagrees with most of what is said above. As far as manpower repair, I do agree, none. Japan has enough manpower points unless something incredible happens. I have all replacements on and by the end of '42 I have over 1.2M in the manpower pool.

As for resource sites, I say it depends. Pretty sure Japan starts the campaign with a small resource deficit. She can easily make this up with captured sites. Unless... In my current game I've had a large number of captured sites heavily damaged or totally destroyed. Had a resource deficit until about Nov '42. Now that said I did my usual industry expansion, which exacerbates the problem some. Since my goal as Japan is to have >30k supply/day (playing stock) there's no other way.

So here's where I believe you may expand and I'll give reasons why. Manchukuo (a bit), Korea (a bit), eastern China (a bit), Shakalin (a bit more), Hokkaido (good amount), nothern Honshu, Taiwan. I've checked the resource numbers and production in these areas and decided that a certain amount of building could be done. There are a couple of others, but they're a bit more risky.

So to me its cheaper as Japan to ship supply than resources, supply simply takes 'less', 15:1 ya know (in LI anyway). So with the extra production in certain areas they become more 'supply independent' and I have to ship less resources out and supply in as the case may be. This gives the added benefit of less fuel usage. Now it also means that I'll need more resources in the HI as these areas will be supplying less, but for me I try to ship it all anyway. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the 'laws of diminishing returns' and realize that at some point my opponent will cut my lines of communications. This will make getting everything home impossible, but that is for my opponent to do.

The economics of all this can be a bit tricky, sort of like balancing an elephant on the head of a pin.[:D] Consider what you have to do as Japan at the start of the game. Expand the Empire, R&D aircraft, build up engine factories and plane production, produce warships and merchies, to name some of it. Much of this takes supply to accomplish. Add to that industry expansion and you could have one nice big 'economic crash'. So take it slow, plan carefully, and take the Empire to victory[;)].

Or not.[:D] Still don't believe Japan can win anyway, but its still fun to play around with the possibilities.

Of course that's as long as the Allies don't do anything foolish.

[PaxMondo]

HI expansion is different, payback in 500 days … LI though is 1000 days … I wouldn't have free supply to spend on it until ~4/42 after the amphib bonus is gone. That means 1/45 before I start to see any return on my investment for LI. HI though, I start to see return by 9/43. Massive difference there …

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

HI expansion is different, payback in 500 days … LI though is 1000 days … I wouldn't have free supply to spend on it until ~4/42 after the amphib bonus is gone. That means 1/45 before I start to see any return on my investment for LI. HI though, I start to see return by 9/43. Massive difference there …

HI expansion is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Since HI runs on your most pressured pain point (Oil->Fuel), you'll only ever get "so much" of it. There's not much point in expanding HI for the sake of probably having a bit more supply in 1943 or 1944. You won't be short of supply in 1943 or 1944 unless you've already lost. You'll be short of supply in 1945 and 1946, at which point you'll be out of Fuel and therefore HI production regardless of whether you expanded HI or not.

You will probably have a surplus of Resources, however. What runs on just Resources? LI does. But you have to do it before March 1942.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

HI expansion is different, payback in 500 days … LI though is 1000 days … I wouldn't have free supply to spend on it until ~4/42 after the amphib bonus is gone. That means 1/45 before I start to see any return on my investment for LI. HI though, I start to see return by 9/43. Massive difference there …

HI expansion is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Since HI runs on your most pressured pain point (Oil->Fuel), you'll only ever get "so much" of it. There's not much point in expanding HI for the sake of probably having a bit more supply in 1943 or 1944. You won't be short of supply in 1943 or 1944 unless you've already lost. You'll be short of supply in 1945 and 1946, at which point you'll be out of Fuel and therefore HI production regardless of whether you expanded HI or not.

You will probably have a surplus of Resources, however. What runs on just Resources? LI does. But you have to do it before March 1942.

Agreed … before March 42 would be the rub for me … hard to find supply before the end of amphib bonus.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Maybe if divisions arrived with no squads manpower would be needed.

I've always wondered if the monthly allotment of replacement squads is tied in any way to manpower production.

It sure doesn't seem like it is. And if that's the case what IS manpower production actually good for in game terms?

The Dutch don't see to get any more available replacement squads as I liberate Dutch manpower production in Java in December of '44.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Dili
Maybe if divisions arrived with no squads manpower would be needed.

I've always wondered if the monthly allotment of replacement squads is tied in any way to manpower production.

It sure doesn't seem like it is. And if that's the case what IS manpower production actually good for in game terms?

The Dutch don't see to get any more available replacement squads as I liberate Dutch manpower production in Java in December of '44.

Manpower is a resource for squad building, just like vehicle points are a resource for AFV/vehicle building, and Armaments are a resource for squads and other devices building. All this is for Japan only, secton 13.2 in the manual. And available manpower is more than enough to have all Japanese needs met. Japan never runs out of manpower stock, at least I've never heard of anybody encountering this hurdle.

Also, manpower does not matter for Allies at all. Like seriously at all. All squad/device production rates are predefined in the scenario for Allies

[HansBolter]

All these bells and whistles in the game for one side only makes me want to wretch.

Why is it even visible to the Allies when we have no reason to give a flying you know what about it?

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

All these bells and whistles in the game for one side only makes me want to wretch.

Why is it even visible to the Allies when we have no reason to give a flying you know what about it?

If I might suggest a possibility Hans? I've always felt that the entire game is one massive learning experience. That's why you go through the tutorials , then pay the smaller scenarios , playing one side then the other. Then of course comes the day you play your first grand campaign , as the allies. Maybe several. By seeing the production process , even though you have minimum influence , your still learning. Once you've mastered the allied side , then you are ready to play the grand campaign as the Japanese. The most complicated phase , I believe ,is production. Basically , every single step and processes are baby steps , then bigger and bigger steps to the day you master the Japanese side.

While I'm not yet ready to take on the Japanese side , each game I play , each move I make gets me closer to it. And that's the real challenge....are you ready to master "Factory manager in the Pacific?" [:D]