Is there a house rules list anywhere?

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DHRedge
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Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

I have been looking around the forums for a bit, and have heard a few rules discussed that people use as house rules for PBEM.
It would be interesting to see the list most players have added in to think about them in AI games.




Things like no low level 4 engine bombing on Naval attack.

Or other rules some may have used in PBEM games.


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Quixote
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by Quixote »

The answers on this will vary from no HR at all to dozens of rules, depending on the kind of game people are looking for, but here's a link with a number of the more commonly instituted rules. Note that this thread is a bit dated, and that a few of these (OK, many of these) house rule items have been addressed by Michaelm's beta.

tm.asp?m=2260137

A good way to get a feel for current common house rules is to look at the first post or two of a few AARs - this should give you a decent idea of what's out there now.
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topeverest
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by topeverest »

let me suggest you play a game or three before adopting any. You may not find the needs for many...or even any - - - depending on your play style.

IMHO, HR's are enacted for two reasons, to cover a player's weakness or to take away a definitive advantage the game design allows. Keep that in mind.
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geofflambert
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by geofflambert »

I've never seen a house rule I couldn't live without, but have accepted some at times. I wouldn't initiate any if I were you. Usually the Japanese player comes up with them.

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PaxMondo
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by PaxMondo »

My favorites:

No 4E's based outside of ConUSA
P-47's restricted to max alt of 10K
Allied SCTF's must have at least 18 ships in them after 4/42

[;)]
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geofflambert
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

My favorites:

No 4E's based outside of ConUSA
P-47's restricted to max alt of 10K
Allied SCTF's must have at least 18 ships in them after 4/42

[;)]

I like that one! Let's see the Japanese player figure out how he's going to base his Mavises and Emilys in the continental US. Not.

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crsutton
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

My favorites:

No 4E's based outside of ConUSA
P-47's restricted to max alt of 10K
Allied SCTF's must have at least 18 ships in them after 4/42

[;)]

Sounds reasonable...
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DHRedge
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I've never seen a house rule I couldn't live without, but have accepted some at times. I wouldn't initiate any if I were you. Usually the Japanese player comes up with them.

I play as the Japanese player in all the games I have played in witp, and think I am proficient with most of the rules and such. And have seen the changes in WITP AE around issues of patrols and waypoints and such.


Have they fixed the problem where 'safe route' tasking shows enemy ship locations, and occupied airbases?

If I put a ship on safe routing, it will go around some hexes, or around some air search arcs, and could be used to detect locations.

That is the only house rule I can think of from playing. That would be needed as a rule. I don't use 'safe task force pathing' since it tells me where enemy ships are.
And I don't worry about unrealistic actions, historical modeling is not an issue.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: DHRedge


Have they fixed the problem where 'safe route' tasking shows enemy ship locations, and occupied airbases?

Yes. They don't do that now. DL drives most everything in that area. If you know there are bombers on Tarawa by DL the TF will route around if in Safe or Safer. If they're there but you don't know it, the ships drive past and wave. Then sink.
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DHRedge
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: DHRedge


Have they fixed the problem where 'safe route' tasking shows enemy ship locations, and occupied airbases?

Yes. They don't do that now. DL drives most everything in that area. If you know there are bombers on Tarawa by DL the TF will route around if in Safe or Safer. If they're there but you don't know it, the ships drive past and wave. Then sink.

Thanks, good they corrected that.
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: DHRedge

I have been looking around the forums for a bit, and have heard a few rules discussed that people use as house rules for PBEM.
It would be interesting to see the list most players have added in to think about them in AI games.




Things like no low level 4 engine bombing on Naval attack.

Or other rules some may have used in PBEM games.



I don't play with many, but am partial to a few that the game developers recommended (or played with themselves) to skirt some known gameplay issues.

To mitigate the 'stratosphere sweep' phenomenon, TheElf thought using 2nd highest maneuver band as a sweep altitude limit would be reasonable. I usually play with rules akin to that one.

Nikademus plays his games with restrictions on night bombing-how many units, when, what type of target, how high, etc. as there is pretty clear evidence that this is not working exactly as designed.

Paying PP to move restricted units from their default HQ is another common one. I recommend that.

Several iterations on limitations for onset (and location) of strategic bombing abound. Do you omit all strategic bombing until "X" date? Restrictions that are specific to bombing inside of China?

The rationale for other long-standing HRs of yore is less clear, IMO. Many of these egregious issues were dealt with long ago with patches. Of course, for players with long-standing games, these may not be applicable, as OOB patches don't 'correct' games already in progress. For a 4 year wargame, this (not having a codefix for years on end by design) is reason enough to consider some HRs to offset these holes in the program.
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PaxMondo
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't play with many, but am partial to a few that the game developers recommended (or played with themselves) to skirt some known gameplay issues.

To mitigate the 'stratosphere sweep' phenomenon, TheElf thought using 2nd highest maneuver band as a sweep altitude limit would be reasonable. I usually play with rules akin to that one.

Nikademus plays his games with restrictions on night bombing-how many units, when, what type of target, how high, etc. as there is pretty clear evidence that this is not working exactly as designed.

Paying PP to move restricted units from their default HQ is another common one. I recommend that.

Several iterations on limitations for onset (and location) of strategic bombing abound. Do you omit all strategic bombing until "X" date? Restrictions that are specific to bombing inside of China?

The rationale for other long-standing HRs of yore is less clear, IMO. Many of these egregious issues were dealt with long ago with patches. Of course, for players with long-standing games, these may not be applicable, as OOB patches don't 'correct' games already in progress. For a 4 year wargame, this (not having a codefix for years on end by design) is reason enough to consider some HRs to offset these holes in the program.
When I get to start a PBEM, these would all be ones that I would strongly consider.
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DHRedge
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I don't play with many, but am partial to a few that the game developers recommended (or played with themselves) to skirt some known gameplay issues.

To mitigate the 'stratosphere sweep' phenomenon, TheElf thought using 2nd highest maneuver band as a sweep altitude limit would be reasonable. I usually play with rules akin to that one.

Nikademus plays his games with restrictions on night bombing-how many units, when, what type of target, how high, etc. as there is pretty clear evidence that this is not working exactly as designed.

Paying PP to move restricted units from their default HQ is another common one. I recommend that.

Several iterations on limitations for onset (and location) of strategic bombing abound. Do you omit all strategic bombing until "X" date? Restrictions that are specific to bombing inside of China?

The rationale for other long-standing HRs of yore is less clear, IMO. Many of these egregious issues were dealt with long ago with patches. Of course, for players with long-standing games, these may not be applicable, as OOB patches don't 'correct' games already in progress. For a 4 year wargame, this (not having a codefix for years on end by design) is reason enough to consider some HRs to offset these holes in the program.

I presume the stratosphere sweep forces fighters to fight in a band they are way underrated in, so it is gamey.

Is night bombing to effective? I think it was pretty effective as far as safe from AA and Cap, although accuracy should be much less then day bombing.

The PP item, would that mean many play where there is no reassignment of units outside of a restricted area? I don't think I would like that one, since moving some units is already restricted by expense of PP, and there is a decision of 'leader assignments' or use to 'move units', that creates a penalty, or are you speaking of a gamey technique involved in reassignment?

Limit to strategic bombing makes sense, or China could have supply issues early beyond a balanced situation. Is that why, it creates a production loss and supply loss beyond playability?

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Icedawg
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by Icedawg »

ORIGINAL: topeverest

let me suggest you play a game or three before adopting any. You may not find the needs for many...or even any - - - depending on your play style.

IMHO, HR's are enacted for two reasons, to cover a player's weakness or to take away a definitive advantage the game design allows. Keep that in mind.

I don't know that this is necessarily true. I play with a fair number of house rules and almost all are neutral or limit what I, as the Japanese player, can do.

On turn one, the Japanese player can do some pretty ridiculous things with his "magic move" TFs. I limit myself to reasonable places they can end their turn one movement and I would suggest if you play as the allies, you limit your opponent in the same way.

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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

On turn one, the Japanese player can do some pretty ridiculous things with his "magic move" TFs. I limit myself to reasonable places they can end their turn one movement and I would suggest if you play as the allies, you limit your opponent in the same way.


Use of the Magic Move in different ways really adds to the game, and it reflects the conditions of a surprise attack.

First turn Historic, is really limiting to the Japanese.

What areas do you think are ridiculous for a japanese first move?


I like to substitute the idea of ridiculous with audacious.
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by Quixote »

Landing at Darwin on December 7th? Sailing past the forts at Singapore and landing on the west coast of the Malay peninsula on December 7th? Port Moresby on the 7th? New Caledonia? There's a difference between audacious, and really taking advantage of the system. With the 20X movement bonus at full speed without even a real fuel penalty, you can creatively, audaciously, whatever-ly get away with a lot if you choose to do so. This might be one of those areas worth HR'ing (or at least discussing) with any potential opponent before starting a game. A simultaneous Darwin/Noumea landing on turn one with no prior agreements could lead to a really short PBEM game for some people...

Edit: I say this as someone who enjoys playing as Japan using the non-historical first turn. If you and your opponent agree to a no rules free-for-all (and there have been games like that), then have fun and get creative. If not, I'd still suggest talking about it before just doing it.
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topeverest
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by topeverest »

The more experience a player has at this set of rules allows him or her to much better leverage the various weapons platforms for better results.

to be clear, I don't think of myself as an experienced player, but I do use a few HR's in our PBEM mod, which is a far cry from a standard scenario. Like RA on steroids.
1. no strat bombing until 1943.
2. no strat bombing in China proper throughout game
3. night attacks limited to 1 per turn, and none until sufficient night fighters are present, usually about 1944.
4. 4e must fly bombing missions from level 9 airbases

We actually love the first turn magic move. The empire needs that IMHO.

really it is what works for you. For the longest time, we didn't put any HR's in, but we both decided these were fair to both sides and facilitate a good game.
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pompack
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by pompack »

one I like is based upon historical practice and period technology

"4E night attacks allowed against city Manpower only"

Highly trained night bombardment units equipped with radar bombing aids could usually (but not always) hit the right city target; unless you are 617 squadron anything else was a matter of sheer luck (and the game code allows for sheer luck taking out point targets within a city with Manpower as a target)
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by DHRedge »

ORIGINAL: Quixote

Landing at Darwin on December 7th? Sailing past the forts at Singapore and landing on the west coast of the Malay peninsula on December 7th? Port Moresby on the 7th? New Caledonia? There's a difference between audacious, and really taking advantage of the system.


Yea I could see that as a sensible issue, and convoy that would have to pass an area that would create detection, would make sense to have a house rule against that. So someone could hit Rabaul, but not Port Moresby That would make sense.

In some future patch, they could compute the 'disruption' based on time at sea, and that would help effect long range landings.
The issue you mention could probably best be corrected by adding a range based 'disruption' effect to dec 7th surprise forces to represent not having near bases. And compute distance required to nearest friendly port with a disembark capability to determine what would be required as far as time at sea.

Although it is possible for a Dec 7th surprise landing at New Caledonia without detection, although that would be a long time to be at sea, so disruption would be the issue.


And Java or West side of Burma, it would make sense to not allow that, since it would probably be detected by active Common Wealth Troops.

The question is, on Dec 6th, would convoys of invasion forces spotted rounding some place like Singapore have raised an alarm?
It is possible while not on a war footing some observer might think it odd, like they did when seeing a sub at Pearl Harbor. And If sighted off the coast of Singapore, could they do something about it, in the hours it would take to travel the additional 200 to 400 miles before landing.

It would probably get air recon in the air, then someone would call some embassy, and that embassy would ramble on about training missions or something like that, or stall, then some ships would be sent to follow them, by then they would be at the shore.





Although it should be noted, the Scots or the Irish have documented landing as far away as New Caladonia, and many other places [:)]

So it might have been possible.

[:)]

Time for a musical interlude.

Celtic Ladies - New Caladonia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v28is4jFWeo

Celtic people are everywhere!

Celtic Ladies - Organic Flow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpTkv713vQ

To the beaches!

[:D]
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geofflambert
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RE: Is there a house rules list anywhere?

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: topeverest

The more experience a player has at this set of rules allows him or her to much better leverage the various weapons platforms for better results.

to be clear, I don't think of myself as an experienced player, but I do use a few HR's in our PBEM mod, which is a far cry from a standard scenario. Like RA on steroids.
1. no strat bombing until 1943.
2. no strat bombing in China proper throughout game
3. night attacks limited to 1 per turn, and none until sufficient night fighters are present, usually about 1944.
4. 4e must fly bombing missions from level 9 airbases

We actually love the first turn magic move. The empire needs that IMHO.

really it is what works for you. For the longest time, we didn't put any HR's in, but we both decided these were fair to both sides and facilitate a good game.

I have difficulty knowing what to say about this collection of old rhubarbs, and I am unaware of any justification for them. We know for a fact that all these things were done that are prohibited by your rules. What are these rules for?

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