Nearly 3 years since release

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

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wodin
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Nearly 3 years since release

Post by wodin »

and Dave is still here putting out patches for the game..commitment..not half...big applause.

Hoping though that the next final patch is the final one for BTFB..and we can look forward to some new releases (3 years is longer than we've had to wait before for a new game and I think were still a couple of years away from one..sadface...)..

(On a patch issue has Dave been notified on the possible fastest move bug\issue chaps?)

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Jafele
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Jafele »

Don´t know Dave´s plans for the future of BTFB but I´d love to see more patches and/or expansions. There´s no hurry, this game is so special (a classic IMO) that needs a constant support. It´s not the typical consumists "game" with an expiration date. Still there are many things that can be improved. Never forget quite a few classic games were ruined due to lack of support.

What do you think about it guys?
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wodin
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by wodin »

Thats all well and good but the trouble is as they are a small outfit we would never get any new releases. I for one have been waiting for a move from the West front tot eh east since RDOA came out..what ten years ago.

So yes I want to see BFTB finally put to one side just as HTTR and COTA was so we can move forward with the new game with the extra features it will have. Otherwise if we went with what you want with updates and patches indefinitely we'd still be on HTTR or RDOA even.

Also from a financial viewpoint Dave needs new games with new theaters to bring the money in..patches for older games I'm sure don't bring in the money like a new title would. If he just stuck with BFTB and constant patches and expansions (though an expansion covering a new OOB and area no yet covered would be a huge undertaking and I reckon it would be more worthwhile making a new title with some new features)isn't going to keep Panther afloat in the long run.

So it maybe no no rush to you..but from my point the sooner the EF game comes out the better..same with Bil's tactical game which is relying on the improved EF game features.

If Dave stopped support tomorrow we can hardly complain that this game hasn't had great support..you can't ask for more still releasing patches three years after release.

Though mos money is made through military contracts..Dave and Panther still need to make money through CO aswell..it's not a charity and can't be run on fresh air...so new games and moving on is something that has to happen and is also ebst for the CO series.
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dazkaz15
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by dazkaz15 »

ORIGINAL: Jafele

Don´t know Dave´s plans for the future of BTFB but I´d love to see more patches and/or expansions. There´s no hurry, this game is so special (a classic IMO) that needs a constant support. It´s not the typical consumists "game" with an expiration date. Still there are many things that can be improved. Never forget quite a few classic games were ruined due to lack of support.

What do you think about it guys?

Well if Dave, (and I think Bletchly-geek is working on the game as well is he not?) continue to support this game, with the patching and mini expansions with new features, at a reasonable cost, then I'm in no rush at all to move on to new content, as there is still so much for me to explore here in this game. I have still only played a handful of the scenarios so far.
But I am quite new to this game, and can understand why the guys that have been around longer like wodin are wanting a change.
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wodin
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by wodin »

The game will never get new features in a patch or mini expansion I'm sure..maybe little extras but not big new features. Those come with a new title altogether. I just can't see Panther being around long if all they did was create patches and mini expansions for BFTB.

Three years is already a long time to keep patching a game and at some point it's time to move on. Hopefully that will be soonish. get the two mini expansions out then move on to the EF game which will have BIG new features.

I loved COTA but I certainly wasn't bothered when it was time for a new game..COTA never got the long term attention BFTB has but I knew and wanted a new game in the series. COTA still for me is the best game in the series solely down to the scenarios. BFTB just doesn't make the engine shine in my opinion and the scenarios are all on the same difficult terrain. COTA had a massive variation in scenarios and terrain.

Anyway hopefully once the EF title is out you'll get a BFTB mini expansion with the chance to have dismounted Inf ops!! SO why not look forward to that...rather than little improvements here and there.

I was hoping when BFTB came out the EF title would be here in say three years..three years are now up and yet really we have no word that any work has been done on it, all we've seen is scenarios using the current BFTB engine version.

I do want to see BFTB bug free but I would like it to be finalised soon rather than later.
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Phoenix100 »

+1 Daz. Lol, Wodin is very keen for his east-front fix, always has been!

There's plenty here still. Look forward to the COTA pack - that will provide, for me, hundreds of hours of fun.
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wodin
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by wodin »

So surprised you can't see the financial aspect here.

You all say you've got hundreds of hours still to play esp when COTA is released..well thats great then because that means your all busy whilst Dave starts on the EF title that others can look forward to. We are all happy.

It's really annoying to be honest that you all have what you want and see no reason for Dave to move on so others can get want they want aswell.

Wodin is very keen..it's not like I haven't been waiting long like many other who want the EF title aswell. It's not like it's been a few months..or a year..or three years..or five years even..lets say three years since it was announced it will be the next title..though it was asked for at the end of Cota..so say five. I think it's only fair that I may actually start to want Dave to move onto it fulltime..no?
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wodin
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by wodin »

Would be great if Dave gave a rough idea on when he thinks BFTB is finalised and when full time work starts on the next title.

Will it be after the mini expansion comes out covering the Bulge again? Or are there more plans again for mini expansions and the EF title is on hold indefinitely.

I applaud the three years support though. I certainly think it's getting to the time that if bugs are squashed it's time to move on (give or take a mini patch for the expansions). As they all say here they'll have plenty to get their teeth into anyway.
Phoenix100
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Phoenix100 »

I too look forward to the EF thing, Jason. But I don't want any hurry in finishing off this engine. As people have remarked - work here is work on the EF iteration and all others. It needs to work as best it can, reasonably. And - though I hate to say this - you don't actually play the game very much yourself, do you, presently? Which might account partly for why you're always very keen for Panther to sign things off and move on... Not said nastily. Just a fact, right?
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dazkaz15
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by dazkaz15 »

wodin
As you know the support Dave gives to the game is second to none, and it's quite often this support, that's bringing new customers to the game.
If you look back to my first post....must be a few months back now, one of the main reasons that I bought, the game was from reading this forum and seeing the interaction between the players, and the developer.

I was so impressed by that I payed for the full version, and the expansion HTTR, little did I know that the game experience for me would match the quality of the support I saw on the forums. From that point on I was hooked.
I don't know how many other people have had the same experience in that regard as me, but I should imagine there have been a few more sales from people reading the forums, and seeing what the fans have said since then, so I hope that this trickle of income is enough in the short term, before any big expansion, to keep the company afloat.
I think mini expansions would be a good idea, even if was just as an experiment to see what kind of interest it gets.
If Paradox can get me to pay for a sprite pack I didn't even want then I'm sure Panther will have some success with rolling out features for this great game, one at a time if they are priced right.

I guess what we need is a few more Dave's and Bletchly-geeks to work on the different things we want [:D]
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Phoenix100 »

I guess what we need is a few more Dave's and Bletchly-geeks to work on the different things we want

I guess it's Dave and Paul, mainly, these days, no? Plus BG, now. And Richard is still involved, no? Actually - not sure who exactly Panther 'is' (aside form Dave) at present - seems a bit of a moving feast, but I had the impression that Dave and Paul were the core of it, in terms of programming (as opposed to testing). In fact, I had the impression Dave and Paul were ALL of it, in terms of programming....

Someone can correct me, no doubt.
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by jimcarravall »

ORIGINAL: wodin

and Dave is still here putting out patches for the game..commitment..not half...big applause.

Hoping though that the next final patch is the final one for BTFB..and we can look forward to some new releases (3 years is longer than we've had to wait before for a new game and I think were still a couple of years away from one..sadface...)..

(On a patch issue has Dave been notified on the possible fastest move bug\issue chaps?)

It's quite obvious that those who may be fans of "wargames" aren't necessarily in tune with the business of the same.

Looking at who has posted regularly in the BftB thread (me included) there are probably 20 people (a WAG estimate) who are guaranteed sales for any update to the game engine for the guys who have developed the engine.

Yeah, I'd like CotA scenarios rolled into the revised Command Ops system and yeah, I'd like some scenarios organized around the issues in Holland (Veritable), but those desires are little more than wishes I don't have to invest any intellectual property to create.

the economic viability of the game is based on what the new customer perceives as desirable vs. what "original owners" want for free.
Take care,

jim
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by BletchleyGeek »

ORIGINAL: phoenix

I guess what we need is a few more Dave's and Bletchly-geeks to work on the different things we want

I guess it's Dave and Paul, mainly, these days, no? Plus BG, now. And Richard is still involved, no? Actually - not sure who exactly Panther 'is' (aside form Dave) at present - seems a bit of a moving feast, but I had the impression that Dave and Paul were the core of it, in terms of programming (as opposed to testing). In fact, I had the impression Dave and Paul were ALL of it, in terms of programming....

Someone can correct me, no doubt.

I'm just a helpful manservant figuring out things [:)]

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Phoenix100
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Phoenix100 »

Lol, BG
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simovitch
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by simovitch »

I help out when I can, early mornings and weekends for the past 6 or 7 years when RL doesn't interfere. I'm not an employee of Panther Games, just someone having a lot of fun working with a group of guys with the same interest and goals.

Dave can tell you that I have had his life in my hands in more ways than one...
simovitch

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Arjuna
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Arjuna »

Yes and it had something to do with a gear lever and the Ardenne. [;)]
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altipueri
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by altipueri »

Stop fiddling with the engine (trying to continue gear lever thing) and look where the passengers want to go.

You've built the best thinking, situationally aware AI for operational games. A sort of real time The Operational Art of War - as opposed to turn based.

If you want loads of new customers your great selling point is surely you can have "any battle any where" - sort of.

So how about more maps, more OOB - standard sets and the grogs can tailor to their historical hearts desire.

Oh, and the random scenario generator.

You are not the only game company wedded to customer loyalty + historical accuracy VS need sales revenue to pay for wife and mistress.

Frankly I'd go for the mistress - it's a rent don't buy decision. There, that moved it from cars to girls.

PS - I once spent £xxx on car only to be told it was crap because it didn't have a vanity mirror (for checking lipstick) on the back of the passenger sun visor! Bad buy - poor customer research.
Phoenix100
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Phoenix100 »

Well, as far as this passenger is concerned they're going where I want to go.

'Fiddling with the engine' is essential.

You're surely talking about getting more passengers, Altipueri - a different thing.

And though I realise you are only wanting greater success for something you already admire, there's always compromises when you want to 'commercialise', and usually you end up with something different to what you wanted, with what made you put in the effort in the first place. I'm guessing this is a labour of love for Panther, not a financial thing. It might spoil the whole thing to make the changes that would be necessary to get proper money out of it.

I think they're doing great. Still going after 3 years of this game, still producing quality.
Txema
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Txema »

ORIGINAL: phoenix

I too look forward to the EF thing, Jason. But I don't want any hurry in finishing off this engine. As people have remarked - work here is work on the EF iteration and all others. It needs to work as best it can, reasonably.

I fully agree with Phoenix !!
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RE: Nearly 3 years since release

Post by Frostwave »

Hi guys new to the game but I'd like to add a few points to this discussion. It is the commitment of Dave and all those involved with fine tuning this engine that has now made me a loyal supporter of this series. I have not seen this level of support and interaction from a developer since my days of playing combat mission.

I believe that what Dave is doing is in fact working on or towards the development of future titles as we speak. The new titles will be based on this engine so it's important that these titles are built on a solid foundation so as to minimize any future snafus that can arise when Dave starts adding some new major features to the mix. This can be a long process but the game will shine all that more for it. In addition to the critics who say that the game is too expensive can look to this almost unprecedented level of support and say it was money well spent. I for one can say this game is worth every penny and more.

I would love to see an eastern front expansion. I was also excited to hear that they are going to reintroduce an older title into this build of the game which coincidentally was what I was hoping they would do (and wish other companies would learn from this). I can't express how impressed I am with everyone involved in this game. I will sing your praise to ever grognard and newbie wargamer that I meet. You have my support in taking whatever time you need to iron out all the wrinkles from what will be the war game that will set the bar for all game developers who take any pride in their work. One last thing been out of gaming for about 5 years and just got back into it lately and was disappointed to see how many big developers don't support their games leaving them in a buggy state and treating their fans like peons. It is refreshing to see a developer that listens to and treats their fan base with respect. Keep up the good work it has not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. So to end this long long post I say Dave and company I salute you and will patiently await your future releases.[&o]
"I hope so for your sake, Commander.
The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
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