HITMAN202 versus THEPRO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed.

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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HITMAN202
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HITMAN202 versus THEPRO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed.

Post by HITMAN202 »

I finished two server games the last month, so I wanted another challenge. Sillyflower (yes, THE Sillyflower) had a challenge out, so I inquired and was surprisingly accepted; with a compatriot of the Brit included. Blephegor would complete the tag team. I wanted a server game, but their gamestyle wouldn't allow it (apparently they divide responsibilities and group-think moves.. it also helps the wear and tear of the longhaul) so a PBEM against THEPRO'S begun !!!

Now I'm a realist. I'm learning a lot about WITE and have played more than a handful of games (all but one discouragingly ending before the 20th move for a variety of reasons ... all by my opponenets (except one) but to face such a formidable twosome, well you just got to expect the worse. Yet I know I would get a game that would not be abandoned. So the conflict ....

... is at the Soviet's 11th move. And it's been an eye-opener. I've been puzzled by some of the recent games where the Germans have been stopped in their tracks in front of Moscow and even Leningrad. Yes Leningrad !!! Also I'm been puzzled by the hoards of units the better Soviets throw infront of the Axis invaders in the first 4-5 turns. I hadn't seen that personally.

So the game started near the end of January. (We agreed to a slow pace.)

My opening consisted of 1) AGN ... no Riga Gambit (in some test runs I discovers it fails around 30% of the time) with good lanes for the infantry and hexes converted north of the Daugava, 2) AGC ... a solid pocket extending to Minsk with a second one around Brest, and AGS with the classic Lvov pocket with 7 units in Rovno included. MT is correct to state that the key on turn one is herding units into isolation and the best measure of it is to limit the total number of Soviet disruptions outside of pockets to twenty; and I achieved it.

A quick summary of the first ten turns.

AGN pretty much paints the reality of playing against the elite Soviet players. In learning WITE I played the Leningrad scenario a lot. I mean a lot. And since Leningrad is the objective I learned to put on the afterburners... in fact I feel I have it down to a fine art ... to go straight to St. Petersburg on a straight line.



Start of turn 4.. Pskov taken. First time of done it. And against THEPRO'S !!! I had great lanes for my infantry and (can't download more than one image a post ???)



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Post by HITMAN202 »

Image

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(I'll learn to put more than one image on a post)

That's pretty good progress !!!
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Post by HITMAN202 »



Start of TURN 5

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I'm getting more excited !!! In my 6 previous games (all as Axis) I've never been this far advanced. I've got 14 infantry divisions at or noth of Pskov !!! No bull. I have the 6 AGN Pz divisions and the 4 in XXXIX Corp (AGC) leading the way.

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Post by HITMAN202 »

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Dudes, I'm really getting excited. Look at my postion !! Great advance right up the gut with a HQBUP done on turn 5 hitting them hard. I'm getting a little cocky. I almost sent a little taunting E-mail to Sillyflower telling him that he (and Sean) were facing some real heat. But I looked north...

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Post by HITMAN202 »

[right][/right]
And it didn't go real well. I only breeched three hexes across the Luga and found my forces huddled in an inoperable chaos. The advantage of a such a massed attack (I'll coin it the "Fist Method") is that as it over-runs the D infront of it, the attack fans out laterally and threatens to overwhelm the center by envelopment as more and more defenders rush to the center to stop the "Fist." But if the attack doesn't overwhelm the center (or at least put a huge strain on it) you get a not-too-small logjam. I produced a good one.

Now in self-defence I did have a crappy MP turn. It really sucked. But the MP cost is heavy is the marsh (which 1/3 of the terrain is there) and that compounded the problem. In theory what I did sounded good (and has worked), but against the elite Soviets.... forget it. Also the terrain pretty much prevents any "fanning" out to the East (a little problem there called Novograd.. which is still Soviet controlled turn 11.. the story will get worse.

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Post by HITMAN202 »

I got my pictures out of order, but at the start of my 6th turn I looked north at Leningrad and saw

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Count them !!! Over seventy Soviet units (not air counters or empty HQ's). I've never experienced this before. I saw it in some recent "elite" matchups, but goodness gracious. How could so many units be funneled to just one area. ???? I'm glad I withheld a snide comment to Sillyflower.

So the Leningrad slog thru level 2 fort after level 2 fort began. And by the way, it got to be level 3 forts on turn 10 !!!

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Post by HITMAN202 »

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Start of the 9th. I obviously swung north up the west side of the fort network on turn 7 and begun the grind. There is some good happening. Every turn I take 5-7 hexes and rout 5-6 healthy units. I didn't mention it but in the first 3 turns I replaced the I and II and XXIII Infantry Corp with Model, Rendulic, and Weis and loaded theem with SU's up the derriere.

The objective good of what's happening in AGN 1) Leningrad is going to fall (I hope). The inclusion of XXXIX PZ Corp has added 1-2 extra captured hexes a turn and the likely fall of the city. Without it I don't think Leningrad will fall. Also 2) forcing the Soviets across the Volkov will shore up a front that the Finns will stabilize. 3) Attrition is hitting the Soviets. I'm causing more and more casualties with each attack every turn, so all is not lost.

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Post by HITMAN202 »



AGN START 11 TURN

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Post by HITMAN202 »

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Starred hexes captured.. seven . Soviets gave up one hex. The front was breeched to two empty hexes. So a total of 10 hexes captured in AGN. 15 or so hexes remain west of the Volkov.

8,000 Germans, 26,000 Soviet Casualties. 12 units routed. 23 infantry div and 10 Pz at the battle front. Nine units made two deliberate attacks each.

Last three turns there have been + 30 units routed. Without the Volkov I bet this front would breakdown in 3-4 more turns.

Planning to send PZ Corp XXXXIX back to AGC.

I'm seeing situations now in which Reserve activation hurts the Soviets when they have a weakened front (I think.) Let's say you have a 7 German div attack (100,000) versus a 3 weakened, low morale Soviet div in a hex (35,000). Odds that would be 3.5-1 or higher would still be greater than 2-1 with 1 unit activated (or even maybe 2). Though additional German casualties would occur, so would more Soviets with the chance that activated units would rout. Activation would increase Soviet casualties and increase routs. Am I wrong ??

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Post by Michael T »

Hitman, the world wonders what's happening in the Centre and South???
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Post by smokindave34 »

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Hitman, the world wonders what's happening in the Centre and South???

Yes - with the extra armor supporting the drive on Leningrad what have you had to give up in the center/south?
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Post by carlkay58 »

But if Leningrad falls the Soviets automatically surrender - right?

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Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

with a compatriot of the Brit included. Blephegor would complete the tag team.
I don't know which is worse - calling me 'Brit' instead of English (preferably)or British, or calling Sean one as he is Canadian.

Never mind. Geography is seldom a strongpoint for Yanks.
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Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

I wanted a server game, but their gamestyle wouldn't allow it (apparently they divide responsibilities and group-think moves..

The server doesn't allow multiplayer (see support thread) so we have to use PBEM. I take north and middle and Sean South + airforce. This does mean keeping more in the South than most as I can't take all the fake cardboard. Still, as only 1 opponent has got to March 42 so far that's not caused a problem. We do adjust later to ensure fairer shares.

Not much of a game if we don't let Hitperson take something.
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Post by sillyflower »

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202


Now I'm a realist. I'm learning a lot about WITE

Though I hate to admit it to his face, Hitperson is one of the most thoughtful players I have met during my 40 years of wargaming. All I have to do now is to convert him to having a PC name and to change that avatar. I have suggested more appropriate alternatives on another thread:

www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3282360

The only real weakness in his play is that, like all members of his profession (and I have worked with many over the last 25+ years), he is at heart too nice a man to be able to master trash talk.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
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Post by HITMAN202 »

carlkay 58 (now I can relate to a guy that likes numbers :) :) ) .... since I'm playing THEPRO'S ( my coined appellation for the tag team is more respectful than derogatory ... that's until I start losing badly), I had expected some handicap and since they granted none will ask for a 5 point permanent reduction in Soviet morale for the rest of the game when the Vienna of the North falls. Look, Flaviusx has been beating up on MT for recently whipping up on two of the better WITE players (Bobo in the process and M60 in postmortum ... Pelton I didn't list you here, but in '41 he did take you behind the woodshed) without giving some handicap, so I expect him to similarly berate Sillyflower. An aside ... don't misinterpret my comments toward Sillyflower ... I've been both impresssed and delighted by the banter we've exchanged in our e-mails, so I want to fan the fire, so to speak.)

Seriously if the Axis fail to taKe Leningrad in "41 they'll probably be forced to retreat back to Riga during the blizzard (the Volkov does freeze) and have a thin front stretched further without the help of the 20 or so Finnish divisions.

smokingdave 34... (another number guy !!!) a lot and even more when you see what I sent south to AGS. But IMO AGC isn't fertile ground for their use with there being little space for them to run in.

MT... I don't have a Photo Shop to steal from my wife and it's so slow (and painful) to use Paint (I promise I'll improve the quality of this AAR in the future with some software) so your're just going to have to be patient. I want to show how my play has had to completely change (and smokingdave I will play differently in the future) and I have 9 turns to catch up on.

Now Sillyflower, you chided me for calling you English and clearly identified your heritage as "British." What should I call you ??? And me a Yank ??? They kicked ass way back in 1776-80. Some people never forget a Yorktown. And geography ??? Considering that Britian once was an empire, geography should never be taught in London. It would hurt the youth to see what has been lost.
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Post by HITMAN202 »

And trash talk ??? With a wife of 33 years, 5 daughters (one son) and 15 or so female employees, trash talk would not be a good skill to have in my present circumstances, Sillyflower. I got enough estrogen driven emotions to encounter daily. You will find that I'm a quick learner (even if I don't have a good teacher.)
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Post by HITMAN202 »


So much small talk. I don't want to get a warning from this site's moderator to cut it, so to the real issue at hand...

AGS first. I wanted to show smokingdave how much I depleted ADC of Pz's.


Rember these screen shots are at the start of each turn.

Image

.THEPRO'S ran, ran, ran, and ran. Remember I made a good Lvov pocket and Rovno addition (almost didn't work) and the Soviets hung a little to close on move three. MT didn't like what they did. Three hexes further back would have been better

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Post by HITMAN202 »

They fell back

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Post by HITMAN202 »

OOPs duplicated it

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Where are all these units coming from ??? Remeber my shot of AGN ???

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