Air coordination in 1120b

[JocMeister]

Michael, it seems like the coordination issues we reported earlier are still present in the latest BETA.

All leaders are between 58 and 65 in skill. AirHQ present at the originating base with a leader having Air skill of 68.

Could you please, please have a look at this again? Besides the possible major balancing issues there is really not much fun having to press escape 17(!) times for a single air raid. [:(]

I would happily have continued with the official patch but I desperately needed the fix for the HQ fragmentation bug.

Before we upgraded to the BETA strikes like this would fragment in two or three different strikes. Directly after the upgrade we got this. 17 fragments.

Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 18
LB-30 Liberator x 3
B-24D Liberator x 30
B-24D1 Liberator x 51
B-24J Liberator x 6
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 63

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 56 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 11
B-25D1 Mitchell x 18

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 3 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 52 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 52 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 61 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

[JocMeister]

If no "fix" for this is possible is there any chance for a separate release with only pure bug fixes like the HQ fragment bug? I understand this would add a huge amount of workload on you but I thought I would ask anyway. [:)]

Cheers,
J

[GreyJoy]

Joc, i don't know, but i've always (and i mean ALWAYS) seen these results, even 20 months ago. I remember when i was bombing Tokyo against Rader... normally i had 2 big groups and then a series of little groups of B29s flying alone.

[JocMeister]

GJ,

I have never seen this before in neither of my two PBEMs. I´ve dug up an older combat report with exactly the same planes involved from exactly the same airbase. Some squadrons are on a percentage of rest the numbers are a little bit different.

And this is even in Thunderstorms... The differences are strikingly obvious. If my drive hadn´t crashed I could probably dig up 30-40 CRs like this.

Something is without any doubt very, very different in the BETA. Whatever michaelm thought he did to fix it didn´t work. At least not fully. [:(]

Morning Air attack on Salamaua , at 98,127

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 24



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 44
LB-30 Liberator x 3
B-24D Liberator x 52
B-24D1 Liberator x 99
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 3 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged



Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 85

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
11 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (24 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(24 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
24 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Salamaua , at 98,127

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11



Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 9


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
LB-30 Liberator: 7 damaged



Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 160 minutes

[michaelm75au]

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

[PaxMondo]

Joc,
 
Your 2nd example is of incredible coordination.  Never seen it and glad my opponent hasn't ever gotten those rolls.  1 in a million in the 40's for that to have happened.  Multiple services, multiple a/c at differing cruise speeds, multiple HQ's (I suspect) ... I've never been able to accomplish that.  Heck, I can't even get Betty's and Nells to coordinate that good, and they are far more compatible, but still 23 kts differnt cruising spd (196 v 173).
 
Heck you've got 223, 200, and 186 for cruising spds ... that's a big difference alone.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Joc, i don't know, but i've always (and i mean ALWAYS) seen these results, even 20 months ago. I remember when i was bombing Tokyo against Rader... normally i had 2 big groups and then a series of little groups of B29s flying alone.

same here, that kind of fragmentation is what is called the enhanced strike routine or whatever they did the commercials with and it has been in the game since day one. The bigger the strikes in total, the more of those < squadron size fragments you will see coming in after the first two or three "normal" sized waves.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Joc,

Your 2nd example is of incredible coordination.  Never seen it and glad my opponent hasn't ever gotten those rolls.  1 in a million in the 40's for that to have happened.  Multiple services, multiple a/c at differing cruise speeds, multiple HQ's (I suspect) ... I've never been able to accomplish that.  Heck, I can't even get Betty's and Nells to coordinate that good, and they are far more compatible, but still 23 kts differnt cruising spd (196 v 173).

Heck you've got 223, 200, and 186 for cruising spds ... that's a big difference alone.

Hey Pax,

I have heard cruising speeds can affect the coordination, but then if that is true, I'm curious why all of the types of 4E present in the first strikes come in later strikes as well? If the speed of various models is causing coordination issues is the engine just then throwing random groups out of the main body or does this directly relate to cruise speeds in some way? Seems pretty random in this case and in our previous tests.

Jocke's strikes have always managed good coordination. If this was due to a bug, (which I guess I didn't even realize was the case, but Michael seems to be saying this above in his post), then other Allied players must have been benefitting from this as well.

The question is really, what is it supposed to look like? What were the bug fixes supposed to produce? Only Michael can really answer this I'm thinking.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

Michael,

So this kind of fragmentation is whats it supposed to be? 15-20 fragments from a single strike or is this something else?

I have attached the save from just before the strike.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Joc,

Your 2nd example is of incredible coordination.  Never seen it and glad my opponent hasn't ever gotten those rolls.  1 in a million in the 40's for that to have happened.  Multiple services, multiple a/c at differing cruise speeds, multiple HQ's (I suspect) ... I've never been able to accomplish that.  Heck, I can't even get Betty's and Nells to coordinate that good, and they are far more compatible, but still 23 kts differnt cruising spd (196 v 173).

Heck you've got 223, 200, and 186 for cruising spds ... that's a big difference alone.

Hey Pax,

I have heard cruising speeds can affect the coordination, but then if that is true, I'm curious why all of the types of 4E present in the first strikes come in later strikes as well? If the speed of various models is causing coordination issues is the engine just then throwing random groups out of the main body or does this directly relate to cruise speeds in some way? Seems pretty random in this case and in our previous tests.

Jocke's strikes have always managed good coordination. If this was due to a bug, (which I guess I didn't even realize was the case, but Michael seems to be saying this above in his post), then other Allied players must have been benefitting from this as well.

The question is really, what is it supposed to look like? What were the bug fixes supposed to produce? Only Michael can really answer this I'm thinking.

Correct, Only Michael can answer definitively.

BUT, yes, cruising speeds were at that time critical for coordination. If you look at the IJ Naval bomber and fighter cruising speeds you will see a definitive pattern. The VAL and the JEAN were paired with the CLAUDE. The KATE was with the first ZERO and supposedly the Judy, but it was delayed. So the VAL was a lot slower than the KATE and ZERO and caused IRL the IJN a lot of coordination issues. ZERO cruise speeds increased slightly through the models to match bombers. Then look at the speeds that the JILL/GRACE/SAM speeds.

In the 40's you didn't have GPS, flights had to fly in together the whole way to stay in touch. TB's had trouble getting to altitude with their heavy loads, and flew lower until their fuel loads got lighter ... and then tried to marry up with the rest of the strike package. Sometimes they did, and sometimes not. Torpedo 8 won eternal glory over this ...

[JocMeister]

Pax,

Interesting about airspeed! I fired up my sandbox used when we first tested the issue in an earlier version of the BETA. This is highly unscientific. I just quickly ran it about 40 times. I did not note weather or anything so take it for what it is. Just a quick test.

First setup was all B25Cs. Same HQ.

Second setup was 16 B25Cs, 16 B25Gs, 16 B17Es, and 16 B24D1s. All same HQ

From that test it looks like airspeed doesn´t have much impact on coordination. Most of tests ended with 3 different strikes including the tests with only B25Cs. I did not notice any patterns. At a glance it looked random which of the planes in the second setup coordinated. If I find the time I´ll try and run more tests and take some proper notes.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

Michael,

So this kind of fragmentation is whats it supposed to be? 15-20 fragments from a single strike or is this something else?

I have attached the save from just before the strike.

Yes.

Read page 309 of the manual for the design philosophy.

Alfred

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

Michael,

So this kind of fragmentation is whats it supposed to be? 15-20 fragments from a single strike or is this something else?

I have attached the save from just before the strike.

Yes.

Read page 309 of the manual for the design philosophy.

Alfred

I read the page. The page did not answer my question. But thank you anyway.

[Alfred]

Read it again.

Alfred

[JocMeister]

I have. Nowhere does it specify what number of fragments one could expect. Only that fragments will occur rather then one big strike. It does not state what is "normal". And given we went from two or three fragments to 15-20 in one single patch I would like to know which one its supposed to be. Hence my question to michaelm in post #9.

The page in the manual you refer to does not provide an answer to that question. But thank you anyway.

[crsutton]

Coordination seems to be a little better with the latest beta but still a tremendous amount of fragmentation. But I really can't say if this is a bad thing or not. I am losing a bit more bombers but with LRCAP over the target I am also getting more chances to engage the defending fighters with my own fighters. I can't say if it I am OK with it or not. Got to give it a little time. Sure does run out the replay a lot longer though.

I think my biggest problem from day one has been that the Japanese player tends to have larger air units thus less problems with coordination. Frankly, in 1944 it should be the opposite. We will just have to see how this plays out. So far, it is not the end of the world for me.

[ny59giants]

I think my biggest problem from day one has been that the Japanese player tends to have larger air units thus less problems with coordination. Frankly, in 1944 it should be the opposite. We will just have to see how this plays out. So far, it is not the end of the world for me.

Some of the modders should go through their games and have the Allied, mainly American, air groups and have the three parts of a 75 FG withdrawn and one month later come back as a 75 plane single unit. Doing the same with the four parts of a 48 plane BG and come back as a single 48 plane unit.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

Michael,

So this kind of fragmentation is whats it supposed to be? 15-20 fragments from a single strike or is this something else?

I have attached the save from just before the strike.

This save didn't have any air attacks.[&:]
Can you please supply the save you send to the other player for the turn resolution.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I can't put the bug back into code. The bug was causing the raids to almost always be coordinated.

If you have a specific save and details, I can look at your case and see why it comes out that way.

Michael,

So this kind of fragmentation is whats it supposed to be? 15-20 fragments from a single strike or is this something else?

I have attached the save from just before the strike.

This save didn't have any air attacks.[&:]
Can you please supply the save you send to the other player for the turn resolution.

Hi Michael,

Jocke asked if I could post this while he was at work. Here is the turn he sent to me with the most recent big air raid that came in 15 or so multiple pieces.

Thanks

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I think my biggest problem from day one has been that the Japanese player tends to have larger air units thus less problems with coordination. Frankly, in 1944 it should be the opposite. We will just have to see how this plays out. So far, it is not the end of the world for me.

Some of the modders should go through their games and have the Allied, mainly American, air groups and have the three parts of a 75 FG withdrawn and one month later come back as a 75 plane single unit. Doing the same with the four parts of a 48 plane BG and come back as a single 48 plane unit.

I would be against that change. Having the big air groups is simply too hard to manage. As long as both sides have the coordination issue then it is not such a big deal in reality. As to whether it's a good representation of how things actually occurred, I personally don't have solid information. However - we should keep in mind that how things are represented in the game versus how they are represented in history writings can be very different for the same thing.

For example, when history says that a raid arrived intact, is that literally absolute or within certain parameters? E.g. some elements only separated by x number of minutes, etc. History might call a raid intact, while the game engine shows those separated groups/fragments. That can represent the fact that the fragments are too far apart to provide mutual support against fighters, which it seems to me would be not very far apart for bombers!

So while I don't know if the way they have is strictly the best way, I am convinced that there is more here than meets the eye and it would be folly to rush out and change mods based on this.