Fort level is in red

[Fallschirmjager]

I did a quick search on this but didn't find anything useful. In my downfall PBEM game against Kylerbill I have several bases with fort levels that are in red. What exactly does this mean?
At first I thought it means that these forts will not expand. But that proved to be wrong. Some of these forts are indeed expanding but at a slow pace. But the % is indeed going up. But it seems to be a mixed bag. Most of the forts in red at still at 0% despite having been on expand for 12 turns now.
My next thought was that these bases had too little supply to expand out the forts. Yet many of these 'red' forts are on the HI where supply is good. In fact, one of these bases is Tokyo itself which has over 700,000 supply.
My third thought was that these bases had engineers that were not adequate to the task of expanding. But like I said, some of the forts are expanding at a slow pace. And again, Tokyo has over 400 engineers and a few dozen vehicles and is not expanding.
Finally, I thought that perhaps fort levels were like ports and airfields, that they could only expand to a certain level based on terrain and base size. But there is nothing in the manual about this.

My fort building seems to be completely hit or miss. Most of my bases are at fort level six which is the scenario design by Andy Mac. I do have one base on he HI that has managed to hit level 7. I can't remember which base. Others are expanding very very slowly and most are not at all.
Level 6 seems to be the level where anything beyond that take a massive amount of man hour and supply.

Can anyone help me out here?

[btbw]

From manual:
8.10 FORTS
Fortification construction costs are based on the SPS of the airfield and port in the base, with
longer time required for bases with larger potential. Level 7 through Level 9 Forts represent
extreme fortification levels (typically constructed prewar e.g. Vladivostok). These levels are
difficult to build and require ‘specialist materials’. Construction of level 7 through level 9 forts
requires a minimum supply level of 25,000 in base to begin construction. Construction will
use 3 times the supply of normal fort construction, which reflects the specialist construction
required. Construction costs also increase as the current Fortification Level increases.

[Fallschirmjager]

So even if I have these requirements in place the forts are still listed in red? That would seem to be consistent with what I have seen.

One of my bases jumped to level 7 a few turns ago. That base must have a massive amount of engineers present. Maybe I could collect a group of engineers and send them from base to base using my RR system and have a roving band of fort builders. Hmm, I may think about that idea.

[Balou]

Why does one want level 7 forts ? Is it worth the effort/expenses ? BTW, what base are you talking about ?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Why does one want level 7 forts ? Is it worth the effort/expenses ? BTW, what base are you talking about ?

as the Allied I build lots of level 9 forts all around the map, you can afford it, supply is no issue. Port Moresby, Darwin, Perth or Akyab for example (with lots of others). As the Japanese, consensus seems not to go over level 6.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

So even if I have these requirements in place the forts are still listed in red? That would seem to be consistent with what I have seen.

One of my bases jumped to level 7 a few turns ago. That base must have a massive amount of engineers present. Maybe I could collect a group of engineers and send them from base to base using my RR system and have a roving band of fort builders. Hmm, I may think about that idea.

I don't recall for certain, but maybe the supply requirement was raised to 30,000 on-hand. Are the ones still showing as red below 30,000?

[geofflambert]

I believe the red is telling you that what you're up to is very expensive.

While we're on the subject of red things, what does it mean on an air unit when "Disband" and "Withdraw" are in red, even though the unit is not scheduled to be removed? I've always just ignored it. [8|]

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Why does one want level 7 forts ? Is it worth the effort/expenses ? BTW, what base are you talking about ?

This is the Downfall scenario. Why would you not want high forts? There is not a lot you can do in that game to prepare for invasion but building high fort levels will slow down the Allies and inflict greater casualties and keep the points race a little bit closer.

[Balou]

Ok. Obviously you see it from the Jap point of view. However - and it's a statement from another expert (castortroy, see above)-

As the Japanese, consensus seems not to go over level 6.

.

I assume going beyond lev6 could entirely depend on your supply situation. Or did I overlooked something ?

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Ok. Obviously you see it from the Jap point of view. However - and it's a statement from another expert (castortroy, see above)-

As the Japanese, consensus seems not to go over level 6.

.

I assume going beyond lev6 could entirely depend on your supply situation. Or did I overlooked something ?

My supply situation is okay. Some of my HI bases are low but that is because the in game RR system is not very finely coded and does not do the greatest job or moving supply and fuel around.
China and Korea have a lot of supply, more than they need, part of your job in the scenario is slipping supply past Allied blockades and back to the HI.
As the Allies having to go up against a lvl 7 or 8 fort stacked with 20,000 IJA troops is pretty disheartening.

Playing as Japan as I said, there is not much you can do in the scenario. Building forts seems like a pretty good use of supply.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Ok. Obviously you see it from the Jap point of view. However - and it's a statement from another expert (castortroy, see above)-

As the Japanese, consensus seems not to go over level 6.

.

I assume going beyond lev6 could entirely depend on your supply situation. Or did I overlooked something ?

Going beyond level 6 is exceptionally more expensive (in terms of supply) while only gaining a little more in terms of defensisve bonus. I don't have the exact numbers in mind but I wouldn't spend tens of thousands tons of supplies to go up from level 6. Level 6 is quite a nice level anyway.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

ORIGINAL: Balou

Ok. Obviously you see it from the Jap point of view. However - and it's a statement from another expert (castortroy, see above)-

As the Japanese, consensus seems not to go over level 6.

.

I assume going beyond lev6 could entirely depend on your supply situation. Or did I overlooked something ?

My supply situation is okay. Some of my HI bases are low but that is because the in game RR system is not very finely coded and does not do the greatest job or moving supply and fuel around.
China and Korea have a lot of supply, more than they need, part of your job in the scenario is slipping supply past Allied blockades and back to the HI.
As the Allies having to go up against a lvl 7 or 8 fort stacked with 20,000 IJA troops is pretty disheartening.

Playing as Japan as I said, there is not much you can do in the scenario. Building forts seems like a pretty good use of supply.

don't know what date you are talking about, but even the best players I know seem to run into supply problems in late stages, the better you play, the more troops/aircraft/pilots and the more supplies will be eaten.

And I can asure you, 20,000 troops would never dishearten me, not even if they would sit behind level 9 forts. That's just one division with some support, usually just close to 400 av. By the time I have to deal with Japanese level 8 forts (usually not before later stages) I am able to overrun bases with 20,000 troops easily. 200,000 is a different story, but 20,000 I wouldn't really care about forts.

Not to be forgotten, good defensive terrain gives you more than forts.