Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Moderators: Joel Billings, elmo3, Sabre21
Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
I just started to check out the newest patch; and unless my memory is completely shot, it appears as if the 25th and 16 MTZ Divisions are now fixed, which effectively does in the Lvov pocket...or am I hallucinating?
And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).
Well done [:)]
And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).
Well done [:)]
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Its a Soviet Fan Boy patch remember
Wait till you see that the Tiger Tank has been replaced by bicycle recon units[;)]
In all seriousness, you'd thought somebody might have mentioned that as its quite important......
Wait till you see that the Tiger Tank has been replaced by bicycle recon units[;)]
In all seriousness, you'd thought somebody might have mentioned that as its quite important......
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Huh? I just started a new game against Baelfin and he did a Lvov pocket just fine.
Aircraft losses on the surprise turn were surprisingly low, though. Right around the same 2k you're reporting. Wasn't expecting that.
Aircraft losses on the surprise turn were surprisingly low, though. Right around the same 2k you're reporting. Wasn't expecting that.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Marquo, you are indeed, hallucinating. Those two Motorized Divisions have always been frozen on turn 1. They, along with the rest of PG 1, activate on turn 2.
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RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Yup, but see the paranoia that's out there now...
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).
Same for me (2,190 already).
Regards
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
No - something is not right? There are only now only 4 armored divisions from the 1st Panzer Group with are mobile on T1; the 24th Pz Corps releases on T2 - I think this is different. Perhaps the pocket can be done if the 24th Pz Corps from AGC is diverted south....are you guys sure??????
[X(]
[X(]
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Panzers are fine, air losses on T1 are markedly lower.
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Okay, I'm just paranoid - but still.....
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Same as it ever was...ORIGINAL: Marquo
No - something is not right? There are only now only 4 armored divisions from the 1st Panzer Group with are mobile on T1;
You mean the 14th (XIV) Pz Korps, don't you? That was always frozen on turn 1.ORIGINAL: Marquo
the 24th Pz Corps releases on T2 - I think this is different.
I generally use the XXXXVI Pz Korps from PG 2 to assist. Also, some of the infantry and the cavalry from XXIV Pz Korps. But, yeah...I'm sure...[;)]ORIGINAL: Marquo
Perhaps the pocket can be done if the 24th Pz Corps from AGC is diverted south....are you guys sure??????
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Marquo what ever you do don't elaborate on my version of the Lvov pocket. Or poor old Flav will have a fit.
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Michael,
With time and the perspective of many PBEMS, AARs, and history, it seems that the the Lvov pocket as it plays out in WITE, sets the stage for a domino effect which has resulted in deep introspection; this introspection has resulted in many good patches and updates; but IMHO the fundamental issue of supply has not really been addressed.
My opinion (FWIW): revisit the logistical rules and the Lvov pocket.
Marquo [:)]
With time and the perspective of many PBEMS, AARs, and history, it seems that the the Lvov pocket as it plays out in WITE, sets the stage for a domino effect which has resulted in deep introspection; this introspection has resulted in many good patches and updates; but IMHO the fundamental issue of supply has not really been addressed.
My opinion (FWIW): revisit the logistical rules and the Lvov pocket.
Marquo [:)]
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
As usual Marquo you offer a reasonable and well balanced view.
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
ORIGINAL: Marquo
I just started to check out the newest patch; and unless my memory is completely shot, it appears as if the 25th and 16 MTZ Divisions are now fixed, which effectively does in the Lvov pocket...or am I hallucinating?
And...I waas only able to destory 2,000 Soviet aircraft on the ground (down from ~ 3,600 before).
Well done [:)]
I can't comment about the Lvov Pocket, but I have started 4 games just to bomb Russian airfields and the most Soviet aircraft I have destroyed is 2122.
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman
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RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Yeah I expected the number would shrink after the earlier patch. They went from 50% to 33% for planes hitting airfields even on turn 1. It shold have been left at 50% for turn 1.
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
ORIGINAL: sath
Yeah I expected the number would shrink after the earlier patch. They went from 50% to 33% for planes hitting airfields even on turn 1. It shold have been left at 50% for turn 1.
I agree. At first I thought I was dreaming when the number of commie air planes I destroyed fell by about 60%.
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Pavel made some changes to the air combat model so aircraft would not use drop tanks to kill enemy ground units, tac bombers would not use their defensive guns (only forward) or level bombers would not use any guns at all (they are assumed to be bombing from high above, out of effective range of their guns).
This may have influenced the aircraft bombing results.
Remember how surprising it was for an infantry squad to be killed when an aircraft drop tank fell onto their head(s).
This may have influenced the aircraft bombing results.
Remember how surprising it was for an infantry squad to be killed when an aircraft drop tank fell onto their head(s).
WitE dev team - (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
WitE 1.08+ dev team (data/scenario maintainer)
WitW dev team (aircraft data, partial data/scenario maintainer)
WitE2 dev team (aircraft data)
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RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
Question is, is it too little now? Seems ~2-4,000 losses in the opening days is the most common figure in books etc, but that was accomplished by a Luftwaffe that was also flying CAS, interdiction, etc. In game, the player must commit 100% of his air missions to airfield strikes just to reach the low end of those numbers.
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RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
*oops, didn't mean to post again, please delete
RE: Lvov Pocket Gambit Done In?
the player must commit 100% of his air missions to airfield strikes
it is physically impossible.
Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development