*RANT* about STEAM let me know what you think

[bean5671]

Hello all
I need to rant somewhere about this been banned from the steam forums and THQ forums 2k forums all because I asked a question

my question
I work from home in a very sensitive industry. My employer is a very large R@D company (I just gave you the name if u know the joke) I am working on a contract for a certain agency so my home network is very tightly controlled, the equiptment ie routers and hardware firewalls are not even mine I can not touch them even though they are in my house, I have one work machine and 4 other family pcs my household is myself and 3 boys oldest is 15
now I can not use steam not at all, I have asked and are not allowed to open the ports it needs so is there anyway for me to make the copies of CIV 5 and homefront that my oldest boy purchased from Gamestop work without steam?


this question got me the first ban from the steam forums so I created another account and asked why I was banned they said I was advocating piracy???

I then asked how is it piracy if I paid for the games (I now have them working without steam btw took my all of 2 hours I have access to some great tools)
they just banned me agian so I called THQ and 2k directly and ask them about this issue and they both said I was pirateing the games . WTF how can I be pirateing something I paid for
I love matrix games and have a ton of game from them so wanted the to see what you guys think of this
I have the receipts for the games they will not work on my network with the steamworks component so I just never installed the steamworks component really I removed it from both games before I create the new installer. I never even create a steam account so How am I breaking the steam EULA for a tool that has never been on my machine

AM I pirating or just making something I paid for work on my system

[Perturabo]

Yes. You have bought games secured with Steam DRM. You couldn't use them without using Steam. By removing the Steam DRM using hacking tools, you pirated the games. The Steam DRM is there to protect the rights of developers and now the rights of developers can't be protected because your copies of the games were cracked.

[Zakhal]

If I had been in your position I would have just tethered another connection through my cellphone to one extra laptop that is not connected to the workplace network.

But I dont think its good to go to steam forums asking how to make copies out of Civ5. They might understand it wrong.

[bean5671]

but the DRM will not allow the game to work so what I just eat the money i lost that is not acceptable to me, I can not return them so I have no recourse but to make them work
if i paid for it i have the right to use it correct?

[bean5671]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

If I had been in your position I would have just tethered another connection through my cellphone to one extra laptop that is not connected to the workplace network.

But I dont think its good to go to steam forums asking how to make copies out of Civ5. They might understand it wrong.

I offered to send the mod that banned me Proof of purchase but he just banned me agian
Sorry if I buy it that gives me the right to play it, if it wont work and they refuse to refund my money, I will make it work. I am not sharing it I am just using it

I am not allowed any other pipes ie internet access into my home while i am working on this contract
they gave me a new phone and took my old blackberry I am telling you when I say tight I mean tight

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: bean5671

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

If I had been in your position I would have just tethered another connection through my cellphone to one extra laptop that is not connected to the workplace network.

But I dont think its good to go to steam forums asking how to make copies out of Civ5. They might understand it wrong.

I offered to send the mod that banned me Proof of purchase but he just banned me agian
Sorry if I buy it that gives me the right to play it, if it wont work and they refuse to refund my money, I will make it work. I am not sharing it I am just using it

Well its still nothing to get upset about. I mean you propably make more money in hour than what the game cost when you bought it from steam? If you cant get it legally but have payed money for it then just pirate it. Thats what Ive done.

In past ten years Ive had to games with faulty DVD. It would have taken weeks to return them (they were ordered from abroad) so I just pirated them because pirating takes less than hour.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: bean5671

but the DRM will not allow the game to work so what I just eat the money i lost that is not acceptable to me, I can not return them so I have no recourse but to make them work
if i paid for it i have the right to use it correct?

You have right to use under condition that you connect to Steam and create a Steam account so that they could ban you if they feel like doing so or if you do something really bad like for example putting your units into shape of swastika or insulting the publisher on internet forum.
You have paid for limited right to use the game and Steam DRM enforces these limitations.

[Jeffrey H.]

I think acceptance of Steam is in the EULA and printed on the box. At least I recall reading something like that on the EULA before I bought L4D. It went something like "you must have steam and allow steam to do it's thing to play this game" or something along those lines.

I would have to say, you should have investigated it a bit further before buying. I do believe you deserve a refund however, but that probably won't happen.

We've discussed this so many times on these forums, the perils of DRM schemes are often times more harmful to the customers and users than the pirates themselves.

[Fallschirmjager]

You went on a companies forum and asked how to get around the copy protection. I can't think of a forum that would not ban you.
I would get with your company and find out how and if you can set up a second and completely independent second network within your house to run your personal internet through independent of your work internet.

If that does not work. Change jobs. That is a shitty career that does not allow you to play your games

[Erik Rutins]

Bean5671, et. al.,

We're not fans of DRM and I sympathize with your frustration. However, companies do not generally take kindly to people asking how to get around their DRM and policies on most such forums mean that anything construed as promoting or asking about removing copy protection or piracy results in an immediate ban. Bottom line is that they were
probably within their rights and policies to do what they did, though I agree it was not good customer service.

I'm not sure there's much they could have done to help given your setup and the requirements for those releases. I doubt anyone you spoke to had the ability or the right to circumvent the DRM to get it working for you.

Also, while it started as a rant, let's not let this get heated or we will end up having to lock it up. There have been a few threads in the past with pro and anti-DRM discussions that have ended up getting personal.

Regards,

- Erik

[Josh]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: bean5671

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

If I had been in your position I would have just tethered another connection through my cellphone to one extra laptop that is not connected to the workplace network.

But I dont think its good to go to steam forums asking how to make copies out of Civ5. They might understand it wrong.

I offered to send the mod that banned me Proof of purchase but he just banned me agian
Sorry if I buy it that gives me the right to play it, if it wont work and they refuse to refund my money, I will make it work. I am not sharing it I am just using it

Well its still nothing to get upset about. I mean you propably make more money in hour than what the game cost when you bought it from steam? If you cant get it legally but have payed money for it then just pirate it. Thats what Ive done.

In past ten years Ive had to games with faulty DVD. It would have taken weeks to return them (they were ordered from abroad) so I just pirated them because pirating takes less than hour.

That's what I would do. Let me state first that I really really don't like piracy, it's like robbing IMHO. Anyways, I had this issue with a large amount of legally downloaded music I coulnd't play anymore because of DRM issues. Downloaded it via a paid service... then it says "can't play because of blahblahblah..." (that happened after a year or so). Wrote a few mails, never got the issue solved. Needless to say I d/l pirated copies.... worked without a problem. [:@]
Now that's just plain wrong... I have to d/l illegal copies to make it work. [&:]

OTOH, working in a business such as yours, hmm, there are other games worth playing too. But I understand your point of view perfectly.

[bean5671]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Bean5671, et. al.,

We're not fans of DRM and I sympathize with your frustration. However, companies do not generally take kindly to people asking how to get around their DRM and policies on most such forums mean that anything construed as promoting or asking about removing copy protection or piracy results in an immediate ban. Bottom line is that they were
probably within their rights and policies to do what they did, though I agree it was not good customer service.

I'm not sure there's much they could have done to help given your setup and the requirements for those releases. I doubt anyone you spoke to had the ability or the right to circumvent the DRM to get it working for you.

Also, while it started as a rant, let's not let this get heated or we will end up having to lock it up. There have been a few threads in the past with pro and anti-DRM discussions that have ended up getting personal.

Regards,

- Erik

Thank you Erik

NO I do not want this to go that route [&o]

I did not purchase the games myself my kid did from Gamestop I tried to return them and was kind of laughed at that I even asked
I knew steam would not work my kid did not so I really did try I called THQ really nice guy though he said I was pirateing so I ask for my money back and he refused, I called 2k they told me that they cold not condone it but they will not do anything, I spoke to 2 people at Valve that just said tough you have to eat the cost
its not the money its the principal its how the game industry is defining piracy its a little to scrict for my taste
if I paid the dev for it I should have the right to play it period now what am I paying for

it use to be one license = one use of the software at one time
now it seems to be one license = one person only I will never agree to that

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

You went on a companies forum and asked how to get around the copy protection. I can't think of a forum that would not ban you.
I would get with your company and find out how and if you can set up a second and completely independent second network within your house to run your personal internet through independent of your work internet.

If that does not work. Change jobs. That is a shitty career that does not allow you to play your games

I'd rather say that it's a shitty publisher that makes playing already bought games such a problem. The whole online DRM stuff is so ridiculous. The only DRM that I tolerate nowadays is cd-keys as they are just written from a card inside of box or copy-pasted from the order confirmation email.
Even CD-checks are too much for me as I see no point in juggling CDs/DVDs (and risking damaging them) when all the data fits on HDD. CDs/DVDs belong to CD-cases and DVD-RW drive is for installing stuff/doing backups not for keeping useless disks there.

ORIGINAL: Josh

That's what I would do. Let me state first that I really really don't like piracy, it's like robbing IMHO.

Not really. "Piracy" is completely unlike robbery because nothing is removed from the inventory.

ORIGINAL: Josh

Anyways, I had this issue with a large amount of legally downloaded music I coulnd't play anymore because of DRM issues. Downloaded it via a paid service... then it says "can't play because of blahblahblah..." (that happened after a year or so). Wrote a few mails, never got the issue solved.

Now that sounds more like a robbery since money *and* music that you have bought were removed from your inventory. You had them but they took them away from you.

ORIGINAL: Josh

Anyways, I had this issue with a large amount of legally downloaded music I coulnd't play anymore because of DRM issues. Downloaded it via a paid service... then it says "can't play because of blahblahblah..." (that happened after a year or so). Wrote a few mails, never got the issue solved. Needless to say I d/l pirated copies.... worked without a problem. [:@]
Now that's just plain wrong... I have to d/l illegal copies to make it work. [&:]

Just don't use torrents and you'll be okay. All the law actions against unauthorised copies of music that I've heard of were against people who were *distributing* music through P2P networks.

Where I live, it isn't even illegal to download unauthorised copies of music.

Funny thing, almost all of 61 music albums (CDs, though I'm lately I started buying vinyl as they feel more luxurious[:D]) that I have bought during last 5 years were albums that I have previously downloaded from the internets. And in case of most of those that I haven't downloaded and listened through before buying, I have regretted buying them because they have turned out to be crap (basically, albums by previously good bands who suddenly started to decline).
On the other hand most of the rest is a pretty difficult music that requires listening to many times to appreciate, so I would never start to listen to them without digital downloads. It can be said that it's a lot of lost sales for the mainstream music industry that depends on "brand names" and music being easy to listen[8D].

[bean5671]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Yes. You have bought games secured with Steam DRM. You couldn't use them without using Steam. By removing the Steam DRM using hacking tools, you pirated the games. The Steam DRM is there to protect the rights of developers and now the rights of developers can't be protected because your copies of the games were cracked.

you are right to a degree however

protect them from what? me using the software I paid for or am I guilty even though I did not post it on the net or share it in any way.
I am in the US so they would need to proof that I did give a hacked copy to someone else
I have not so i am not guilty of piratcy in my eyes

what about my rights as a consumer my system specs are higher than the mim I have access to the net just not open enough for steam to work but GOG works D2d impluse gamersgate and Matrix heck I downloaded WITP AE from matrix without any problems nobody can monitor inside my network even when this contract is over I will still not allow that.

the software does not work correctly I tried all avenues to make it work and was rebuffed I even asked 2k for a non steam version they said it requires steam for the program to work correctly it does but you can patch it out easly if you know how (I did)
it is not piracy if you pay for it and use it one license use at a time which is what i will do
I never asked for steamworks I purchased a game not a DD service

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: bean5671

protect them from what? me using the software I paid for or am I guilty even though I did not post it on the net or share it in any way.

Lots of EULAs state that publisher can cancel your licence, often without even giving any reason. If you hack the copy, they can't do that any more. They can't decide that you can't use the game any more for whatever reason.
It simply limits the rights of the publisher.

[USSAmerica]

bean, you really have only one option.  Make your opinion of these DRM practices heard by never sending a single dollar to publishers using them.  It's a long term process, but better business practices will eventually win out if enough consumers refuse to be held hostage.  I've never personally had a problem with Steam, because I never have and never will purchase a game that forces me to use their system.  Thankfully, WitP:AE consumes every minute of my gaming life, anyway.  [:D]

[Anthropoid]

To hell with pirates and hackers who have brought our hobby to this point.

But even more importantly, I say to hell with Steam and all similar DRM schemes. It won't be long before someone with the money, the time and the motivation, takes them to court for their outlandish EULA and they get creamed with a class action law suit.

Seems to me that what you did might not be legal, but I certainly regard it as principled. Thanks for fighting the good cause.

Check out the survey in my signature.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: bean5671

I work from home in a very sensitive industry. My employer is a very large R@D company (I just gave you the name if u know the joke) I am working on a contract for a certain agency so my home network is very tightly controlled, the equiptment ie routers and hardware firewalls are not even mine I can not touch them even though they are in my house, I have one work machine and 4 other family pcs my household is myself and 3 boys oldest is 15
now I can not use steam not at all, I have asked and are not allowed to open the ports it needs so is there anyway for me to make the copies of CIV 5 and homefront that my oldest boy purchased from Gamestop work without steam?

I think the failure here is on your side. By accepting such a rigid contract from your employer, you either have to deal with the consequences or work around it.

That said, you could install another router with open ports at your home, establish a second network via cell phone, take your laptop to the neighboor in order to verify the Civ 5 installation and play in offline mode afterwards. Or you simply google for a solution how to use Steam games without internet connection.

[htuna]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: bean5671

I work from home in a very sensitive industry. My employer is a very large R@D company (I just gave you the name if u know the joke) I am working on a contract for a certain agency so my home network is very tightly controlled, the equiptment ie routers and hardware firewalls are not even mine I can not touch them even though they are in my house, I have one work machine and 4 other family pcs my household is myself and 3 boys oldest is 15
now I can not use steam not at all, I have asked and are not allowed to open the ports it needs so is there anyway for me to make the copies of CIV 5 and homefront that my oldest boy purchased from Gamestop work without steam?

I think the failure here is on your side. By accepting such a rigid contract from your employer, you either have to deal with the consequences or work around it.

That said, you could install another rooter with open ports at your home, establish a second network via cell phone, take your laptop to the neighboor in order to verify the Civ 5 installation and play in offline mode afterwards. Or you simply google for a solution how to use Steam games without internet connection.

I agree.. buy your 'own' internet connection for your personal machines.. Steam does not work at my work either.. and I doubt that I would attempt to try.. I also I can understand why your work would not allow it work as well. Not very tight security if you're allowing machines to connect to gaming portals. Matrix and Wargamer are blocked at my work as well.. You're lucky they're not blocking them!

If you don't want to buy your own connection. Lützow's suggestion is a good one.. even if it's a Desktop.. take it to a neighbor or friends house.. get all your games running and then go into offline mode and leave it that way..

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

To hell with pirates and hackers who have brought our hobby to this point.

Hey, pirates can be useful. At least thanks to them I don't have to depend on 20+ years old disks bought on ebay functioning forever, I don't have to depend on having a specific drive to read an ancient disk type, I don't have to depend on one specific version of an ancient game working well and I don't have to deal with some ancient DRM to play them. Actually, I don't even have to have an ancient computer like C64 with its super-long loading times.

Anyway, to what point did they actually bring our hobby to?

To be honest, I think that modern DRM schemes aren't here to prevent piracy as done by the scene as scene pirates crack them anyway. They are used to prevent people from reselling games and from borrowing them to their friends/family.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: bean5671

I work from home in a very sensitive industry. My employer is a very large R@D company (I just gave you the name if u know the joke) I am working on a contract for a certain agency so my home network is very tightly controlled, the equiptment ie routers and hardware firewalls are not even mine I can not touch them even though they are in my house, I have one work machine and 4 other family pcs my household is myself and 3 boys oldest is 15
now I can not use steam not at all, I have asked and are not allowed to open the ports it needs so is there anyway for me to make the copies of CIV 5 and homefront that my oldest boy purchased from Gamestop work without steam?

I think the failure here is on your side. By accepting such a rigid contract from your employer, you either have to deal with the consequences or work around it.

Single-player games required connection to the internet is not a fault of the contract.