Partisan Supply?

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

Moderators: Joel Billings, elmo3, Sabre21

User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

I'm about turn 10 in a GC vs the AI, and just realized that I need to activate "night missions" for partisan supply. A couple of questions:

1) Why aren't some air units activated for night missions by default?

2) What is the disadvantage of turning on night missions for bomber units? Why not allow all of my air units conduct night missions?

3) At what point do I hit diminishing returns with air units activated for night missions? Is is a case of the more night missions, the more partisan supply, the more partisans? Or would partisan activity max out at some point regardless of how many night supply missions the computer runs?

Sorry if answers to these questions are in the manual, but pages that I read concerning partisan supply were rather vague...

PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by PMCN »

1.  The only air units that would make sense for are you LTAPs filled with U2(trans) and since you have to in the commanders report click the M to A on them when they show up you can click the N to Y and then they are set to go.  The only unit set to night mission by default are your NBAP's.

2.  In general you will take high losses sending in bombers to perform resupply missions at night, I'd suggest only doing so in extreme emergency cases.  The losses to transport planes can be as high as 25% so it is not something you want to do very often with your bombers.

3.  The planes must be able to reach the partisans, and currently I have around 12-14 LTAPs conducting night resupply and the number of partisan units has been fairly constant.  Night resupply missions are good though since it means that your partisan units have NKVD squads, are rifle squads, have MG, Mortars, etc.  As you get the LTAP units for essentially free, and your production rate of U2(trans) is high you might as well use them.

I am going to switch over my TB-3G-2's to night missions as they have a longer range hopefully the partisans deeper behind the lines will benefit from this.
User avatar
jomni
Posts: 2827
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:31 am
Contact:

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by jomni »

Only transport units assigned to VVS will automatically do night supply missions to partisans during the logistics phase.
I'm not even sure if bombers set to night mode in VVS will send supplies. That's because I haven't tried.
U2(trans) have short range, they won't do any good. Upgrade your some transports to Li-2 and TB-3G-2 and set them to night.
All my transport units are set to nigth mode as I do all manual supply drops at night as well.
User avatar
cookie monster
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 10:09 am
Location: Birmingham,England

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by cookie monster »

Soviet partisan units are supplied through night air transport missions conducted automatically
by the computer during the Soviet logistics phase. The computer will first utilize transport and
level bomber air group units set to night missions and attached to VVS type air base units
(8.2.1). If those night mission enabled air group units attached to VVS air base units are not
sufficient to meet the partisan needs, then transport and level bomber air group units set to
night missions and attached to DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD air base units may be
selected by the computer to also transport supplies to partisan units. In addition to supplies,
these missions will also air drop light weapons and NKVD squads to partisan units. NKVD
squads are important for raising the morale of the partisan unit and for helping the partisan
unit recruit additional partisan squads (recruits may come from the partisan unit’s hex and any
adjacent hex that is not adjacent to an Axis combat unit).


Game Play Tip: Air supply to partisans may be automatic, but the Soviet
player still needs to ensure that the right aircraft are in the right place to
get those supplies delivered behind enemy lines. Make sure you place long
range transports and level bombers in VVS air base units that are placed
near the front lines so they have the range to resupply partisan locations.
You may need to do this periodically so as not to become a target for Axis
bomb airfield missions. Shorter range transport air group units such as
U-2s can also do this if placed close enough to the front, but won’t be able
to reach deep behind enemy lines. Don’t forget to set the desired air group
units to conduct night missions!
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?

2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?

3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...

Just give me my partisans!
User avatar
cookie monster
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 10:09 am
Location: Birmingham,England

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by cookie monster »

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?

Look in battles air and you can see transports and bomber supply missions.

You can also see from show battles function. There's a symbol on the map.


2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?

Depends on the plane U2 is short range. Grab some from the pool and manually upgrade to long range.

3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...

Just give me my partisans!

Air transport missions for bombers must be their first mission flown in the turn. Make sure you have some transports on day missions and fly with fighter cover.

I don't know how to fly night transport drops manually.

Once set up at VVS airbases night partisan supply runs auto and needs no further input.
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by Redmarkus5 »

I have also struggled with this. It's way too complex.

IMO, low level partisan ops should occur automatically, without supply drops. ENHANCED partisan operations, with NKVD squads etc. should be activated by the player assigning a supply drop manually to a selected partisan unit. This way I could prioritise certain areas while the others continue by raiding farms and warehouses, or taking weapons from the Germans...

Finally, partisan units that are within (say) 5 hexes of the front after summer '43 should be at a higher level of effectiveness to reflect their hope that liberation is at hand.
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
cookie monster
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 10:09 am
Location: Birmingham,England

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by cookie monster »

Its not really complex

A few simple steps

1. Pick a VVS airbase near the partisans

2.Assign a transport to night duties

3.Check show battles next turn to check air drops carried out

Only gets complicated when the AI/opponent assigns night fighters and intercepts your transports
PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by PMCN »

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?

You see them fly during the start of your turn. All you need to do is put your TAPs with U2(trans) on night mission in VVS bases and move those bases to say 5-10 hexs of the front line. The computer does the rest. Also if you select "show combats" you will see the hexes where the supplies are dropped marked with a paradrop symbol. Once they are on the map the TAP with U2's will be auto renamed to LTAP.
2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?

Rather deep, I am seeing them fly up to 200 miles, and around 100-150 miles behind the lines. The radius is not the issue, the range is...the radius of the U2 is 92 miles so their range is 270 miles...and that is about how far I see them flying. If you want more range switch out a unit to the TB-3G-2 put in a VVS base with night missions enabled and it will fly as well.
3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...

At the start of a turn, open the CR. Change the new TAP to night flying and auto upgrade*. Close the CR. Go to a VVS base. Select assign. Pick a couple of better trained TAPs with U2(trans) and assign them to this base. Make sure the base is relatively close to the front line, since your recon birds are likely based here that is nearly automatic. Do the rest of your turn.

From then on the computer does its best to fly supplies to the partisans. Who do a fine job blowing up rail lines all over the place. You have 1 VVS base per front air command, assign 2 LTAPs to each one and the computer will do the rest.

Manual drops can't be conducted to partisans I don't think. As for other units to air drop supplies to them, go into air transport mode, right click on the unit, select the groups you wish to use and go launch.

*if this is the first time you do this, change all your existing U2(trans) TAPs to night flying (click on the first N to make it a Y and auto upgrade if you wish). Then just do this every turn with the new arrivals.
User avatar
Redmarkus5
Posts: 4454
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: 0.00

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by Redmarkus5 »

Ok, it's simple :)

But adding lots of simple tasks together results in a complex task and WiTP has LOTS of simple tasks.

Partisans are certainly an aspect of the game that could be improved, IMO.

I would like more complexity in other areas, such as production choices and factory upgrades, etc. But not micro managing partisan supply when I can't even issue them with orders about where and when to attack...
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

Thanks everyone for the replies, I hope that my partisans will by blowing stuff up in no time...
PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by PMCN »

I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups.  I seriously spend more time admiring my growing army of partisans and getting frustrated at 25% U2(trans) losses followed by chuckling over how much rail they keep damaging then I spend "doing" anything.  It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it.  And I hope they never allow players to mess with production, that does nothing more than produce min-maxed gamey crap-a-doodle.  I had enough of that with HOIx, not in this game please.

I have partisan units with 300+ victories.  That means 3000 miles of rail damaged by that one battalion alone (which is 700 men strong or so).  An in supply partisan battalion seems to launch a lot of attacks, those that are out of supply will launch one attack every few months so the few minutes of effort it takes to put out some LTAPs will significantly increase the effectiveness of your partisans.  Good luck guys, happy rail destruction.
User avatar
jomni
Posts: 2827
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:31 am
Contact:

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by jomni »

Take note that no supply missions are plotted during Blizzard as well.
randallw
Posts: 2060
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:28 pm

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by randallw »

Using TB-3s, for anything, should be watched carefully since it is an old plane and apparently not in production.

When the partisans really get going they can destroy rail in 8 or 9 bunched up hexes in one turn.
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups...It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it. 

First, thanks for your help, I set up the VVS bases as you indicated, and last turn was pleased to see the German rear spotted with numerous drop symbols (previously--none). Hopefully partisan attacks will soon follow.

But I don't agree that the players have to do "nothing" to get partisans working. In addition to a couple of early war scenarios, I'm 16 turns into a campaign game and have not seen any partisan activity until now, when I've set up my air bases properly.

First I've got to find the VVS bases out of the mass of other air units, and move them as far forward as possible, where they get lost under other units. Then I've got to make sure that they have the right type of planes (some of my VVS bases had NO planes, others only recon, etc.). Then I've got to make sure that at least some of them are activated for night missions. Then throughout the game, I've got to keep checking the VVS bases to ensure that they stay close to the front and that they have adequate planes. Not that I know how many planes are really necessary or desirable--10 per base? 50? 100? Dunno...

OK, not overwhelming but more of a pain than I think is justified given that partisans act autonomously in any event. Why not just allow players to spend a certain number of AP for "partisan supply" and be done with it?


PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by PMCN »

You're welcome. I hope you start seeing lots of "detonator" symbols...should take you a couple of weeks and then they will start to be there.

I agree that you have to invest effort in sorting out the mess.  But I hate to say this if you want to use your air force you have to start learning about it.  Bases will eventually be disbanded, you will get new bases, due to some bugs there are issues in plane use.  I have  book with all the bases and the plane groups in each base listed.  I don't use it as much anymore since things have gotten more systematic and I limit my player directed plane use.

The way partisan resupply is done now, the axis player can interfere with the resupply of the partisans by setting his fighters to night missions.  Also partisans deep behind his lines are less of a threat then they would be if you didn't have to do this.  I have 3 battalions way back near Tarnopol that do very little compared to the ones that are near Smolensk and who get routinely resupplied.

You have to do a lot of what you are saying is a pain anyway, the partisans are a bonus that you get essentially for free.  The VVS bases pretty much start with no planes, but then the initial allocation of planes and bases is far from ideal.  I've invested over the last oh 35 turns I guess a few tens of hours in doing some shifting of planes to try and standardize or "optimize."   But I'm still experimenting with where bases should be placed best, what planes should be where, etc.  Also over time your supply of long range recon planes will go down, so you will start doing recon with U2(recon), R-5, R-10 and maybe the Pe-2(recon).  So you will eventually have to start playing with your recon assets as well.  But for the most part you make so many U2(trans) that you can ignore the LTAP once you put it on the map.  It is likely to stay close to full regardless of the situation, and if it is not well that is nothing you need worry about.  Also...these are the planes you can use for re-supplying your cut off troops so getting them out early and with an even distribution of some sort is a good plan.

But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.

I put as little effort into micromanaging things as possible and to me partisan resupply is about as "fire and forget" as it comes.  Outside of a minor amount of clicking each turn on newly arriving groups (or once every 3 turns if I have better things to do) it is mainly something you have to do once, then tweek every few months as your lines become stable.

I still recall WitP:AE where I had to choose search range, angle, altitude...then attack package management...then try and get supplies from x to y by day upsolon.
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely
But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.

You're scaring me, man, I have no idea what a NBAD night harrassment group is, or what they do!?

I am still learning the ground game and have essentially completely ignored the air game until now, just so that I can get my partisans...I'd better take another look (or two or three) at the sections of the manual concerning the air war.
Jakerson
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:46 am

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by Jakerson »

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups.  I seriously spend more time admiring my growing army of partisans and getting frustrated at 25% U2(trans) losses followed by chuckling over how much rail they keep damaging then I spend "doing" anything.  It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it.  And I hope they never allow players to mess with production, that does nothing more than produce min-maxed gamey crap-a-doodle.  I had enough of that with HOIx, not in this game please.

I have partisan units with 300+ victories.  That means 3000 miles of rail damaged by that one battalion alone (which is 700 men strong or so).  An in supply partisan battalion seems to launch a lot of attacks, those that are out of supply will launch one attack every few months so the few minutes of effort it takes to put out some LTAPs will significantly increase the effectiveness of your partisans.  Good luck guys, happy rail destruction.

Only thing you kind of need to do is to decide how much resources (read plane squadrons) you want to allocate for this task cpu do rest automatically.

Soviet Airforce is decimated by Germans all of the time anyway and Soviets lose 3-5 times more planes than Germans all time so using planes to partisan supply they at least make something good.
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4765
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Jakerson
Only thing you kind of need to do is to decide how much resources (read plane squadrons) you want to allocate for this task cpu do rest automatically.

No, unfortunately it is not a simple matter of resource allocation--if it is simply a case of resource allocation AP would be a very easy way to deal with it. In fact, as described above, you have to dive into individual airbases, transfer planes, turn on night missions, etc. and then keep tracking that throughout the game. Again, not an overwhelming burden, but IMO more of a pain than is warranted.

I think it would be better to replace all of the current partisan supply mechanics with a choice on each front's info screen for "partisan support" for partisan activity within some sector, which would cost AP. You could then simply decide how many resources (APs) to put into partisan support for that sector. Similarly the Germans could have a choice for "partisan disruption" to deal with interception of supply flights, etc.
PMCN
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Germany

RE: Partisan Supply?

Post by PMCN »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely
But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.

You're scaring me, man, I have no idea what a NBAD night harrassment group is, or what they do!?

I am still learning the ground game and have essentially completely ignored the air game until now, just so that I can get my partisans...I'd better take another look (or two or three) at the sections of the manual concerning the air war.

I can relate. I don't like to invest a lot of time in the air war and the fiddle faddle but you have to invest some unfortunately.

The NBAP groups are your U2-VS plane groups (automatically set to night attack) that you should have clogging up your reserve. You use them by putting them on your forward air bases and launching harassment attacks at night against (best choice) weak enemy units. Takes a while but they get experience and 3 NBAPs flying against a target will kill 3-5 guns, and some squads each week.

It isn't the world but it adds up, plus at least based on what I see it drops the supply level of the unit, I think the attack does something to resupply, and it lowers their morale by 1 pt if you do enough damage. But actually getting hits is hard, and keeping the base close enough harder yet.

Also, there are ways to automate the air war, I think you can for example select a mode (say bomb airfield) and turn on the AI and it will run missions. You can also in the air base window set a demand (I want 4 groups), that have a range of (anything), (<20 hexes), (>41 hexs), (max 40 hexs) and the computer will do its best to fill up the air base.

I don't say a lot about air bases and the air war in my AAR so I doubt reading it would help you much, although I think in turn 9 I commented about putting out the LTAPs. You have any questions I'll try and help but frankly I am still experimenting myself with bases, planes and missions.
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series”