GENERALS: FINAL RATINGS VALUES

[Gil R.]

I have just finished tabulating the voting results, and thought you would be interested to see them. These will now be entered into the relevant file and put into the final testing build and, soon thereafter, the game itself. If any particular ratings need to be reconsidered we can do that once the game is out: instead of voting again on every rating for every general, we can discuss voting results that bear closer scrutiny. Overall, I'm very pleased with the results. There are certainly particular ratings (and overall results for particular generals) that surprised me, but on the whole the set of 35 100-percenters and 23 25-percenters are very well balanced, with a nice mixture of outstanding, great, good, average, and poor generals.

I want to thank all of you who voted, and especially those of you who took part in the relevant discussions -- the game will be much better as a result.

Here are the stats for the 100-percenters we voted on:

Terrible = 0
Bad = 1
Poor = 2
Normal = 3
Fair = 4
Good = 5
Great = 6
Excellent = 7
Superb = 8

Categories: Leadership, Tactical, Initiative, Command, Cavalry (0= not a cavalry officer)

U.S.A.:
U.S. Grant: 8, 7, 8, 8, 0
P. Sheridan: 7, 6, 7, 7, 8
W.T. Sherman: 7, 6, 7, 7, 0
G.B. McClellan: 7, 3, 1, 4, 0
G. Meade: 6, 5, 5, 6, 0
A. Burnside: 3, 2, 3, 3, 0
J. Hooker: 4, 5, 5, 4, 0
J. Pope: 4, 4, 3, 4, 0
I. McDowell: 3, 4, 4, 4, 0
G. Thomas: 7, 7, 5, 6, 0
H. Halleck: 3, 4, 1, 4, 0
B. Butler: 3, 2, 2, 2, 0
J.F. Reynolds: 6, 6, 5, 6, 0
W.S. Hancock: 6, 6, 4, 6, 0
J. Buford: 6, 6, 6, 7, 7

C.S.A.
J.E.B. Stuart: 7, 7, 7, 7, 8
N.B. Forrest: 7, 7, 8, 6, 7, 8
R.E. Lee: 8, 7, 8, 8, 0
T.J. Jackson: 8, 8, 8, 7, 0
B. Bragg: 3, 4, 5, 3, 0
J. Longstreet: 7, 7, 6, 6, 0
J. Early: 5, 6, 6, 5, 0
G. Pickett: 5, 5, 5, 5, 0
A.S. Johnston: 6, 5, 5, 6, 0
J.E. Johnston: 6, 5, 4, 5, 0
P.T. Beauregard: 5, 5, 5, 5, 0
W. Hardee: 5, 6, 5, 5, 0
E. Van Dorn: 4, 3, 6, 4, 5
R.S. Ewell: 4, 4, 3, 4, 4
J.B. Hood: 6, 6, 6, 5, 0
P.R. Cleburne: 7, 7, 7, 7, 0
A.P. Hill: 6, 6, 5, 6, 0
D.H. Hill: 5, 5, 5, 5, 0
W. Hampton: 5, 5, 6, 5, 5
J. Wheeler: 6, 6, 6, 6, 7

And here are the 25-percenters again:

Terrible = 0
Bad = 1
Poor = 2
Normal = 3
Fair = 4
Good = 5
Great = 6
Excellent = 7
Superb = 8

Categories: Leadership, Tactical, Initiative, Command, Cavalry (0= not a cavalry officer)

U.S.A.:
Abner Doubleday: 6, 4, 5, 6, 0
William S. Rosecrans: 7, 5, 3, 6, 0
Joshua Chamberlain: 7, 5, 3, 8, 0
Gouverneur K. Warren: 5, 3, 2, 5, 0
James B. McPherson: 6, 5, 3, 5, 0
Don Carlos Buell: 5, 3, 2, 5, 0
George A. Custer: 6, 3, 6, 5, 7
David McM. Gregg: 3, 3, 5, 6, 7
Nathaniel Lyon: 5, 3, 5, 6, 0
John Sedgwick: 5, 3, 2, 5, 0

C.S.A.:
Leonidas Polk: 6, 2, 4, 3, 0
Felix K. Zollicoffer: 4, 6, 5, 3, 0
J. Johnston Pettigrew: 5, 4, 2, 3, 0
John H. Morgan: 7, 3, 5, 6, 8
Lafayette McLaws: 3, 5, 2, 6, 0
Richard H. Anderson: 5, 5, 3, 8, 0
John B. Magruder: 5, 3, 2, 5, 0
Lewis A. Armistead: 7, 5, 3, 7, 0
Fitzhugh Lee: 5, 3, 6, 6, 8
Joseph O. Shelby: 5, 3, 6, 3, 6
Henry Heth: 5, 5, 2, 3, 0
William D. Pender: 5, 6, 5, 5, 0
Robert E. Rodes: 6, 5, 3, 7, 0

[Greyshaft]

Grant and Lee have the same values?
Fine by me, but don't be surprised to have a minie ball crash through your front window sometime soon. Some of them southern boys get a bit twitchy about Saint Robert

[Gil R.]

Yeah, I noticed that too. The voting took a funny bounce that way.

[raven1]

 I'm mildly surprised by A.P. Hill's initiative rating (5)
Considering what he did at Antietam (Sharpsburg, for you die hard southerner's)[;)] i thought it would be at least a (6)

I guess,One battle does not a initiative of (6) make. 

[jchastain]

Just for fun (yeah - I have an odd concept of fun), I graphed the outcomes aginst a normal distribution (bell curve). As expected, the scores skew to the right - but that isn't worrisome as this list is just the most notable (and therefore hopefully incorporating the best) of the overall pool. The red line is what would be expected in a normal distribution. The others are as shown in the legend.

Generally speaking, the results are fairly well distributed. A few items are notable though. Cavalry scores in particular seem off. There are more 8's than 7's and more 7's than 6's. Generally speaking, the highest ratings should be rare.

The results were more generous with Command and Leadership than with Tactics and Initiative - perhaps because the latter two are easier to critque and therefore less influenced by emotion? Other than cavalry - based on distribution alone - the 8's seem to be at reasonable levels. I'd suggest evaluating the 7's assigned to leadership and see if a few aren't slightly inflated. To be roughly in-line with the other ratings, I'd expect to see fewer than 10 graded at this level. Assuming 3 or 4 move down to 6, then both Leadership and Command will have equal to slightly higher levels of 6's over 5's. I'd likely evaluate the 6's for each of those and again see if a few would be more appropriate one level lower.

[Gil R.]

That's fascinating (and helpful). Thanks!

Regarding your concerns about cavalry, does it matter that there are 950 other generals, a few dozen of whom also have cavalry ratings (mostly lesser, as far as I know), so that in the overall game the 7's and 8's wouldn't be totally out of whack?

By the way, I'm not about to be the one to demote Forrest or Stuart from an 8 to a 7 -- I live in Ohio, only a few hours from Confederate territory, and fewer hours from the northernmost reach of Confederate raiding parties. But now that it's 145 years later and they have pick-up trucks, I'm well within their range...

[Gil R.]

I can't tell -- is this graph only for 100-percenters, or for both groups? Remember that the 25-percenters were not voted on, and instead I (with some input from Eric, on whom I'll blame any bad decisions because he's not here to defend himself) determined all of the ratings and posted them for public critique.

[ericbabe]

Hey, that is fun!  It looks bimodal.

[ravinhood]

Lol Burnside got smoked in the ratings! hahahah Good job.

[RERomine]

Any reason Forrest has six values?

N.B. Forrest: 7, 7, 8, 6, 7, 8

I figure the 8 for cavalry at the end is correct, so one of the first five is a spare [:)]

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: RERomine

Any reason Forrest has six values?

N.B. Forrest: 7, 7, 8, 6, 7, 8

I figure the 8 for cavalry at the end is correct, so one of the first five is a spare [:)]

Thanks. I actually caught that while entering the data into the spreadsheet. I think I changed a 7 to an 8 and left the 7 in. (This being Forrest, he of course gets an 8 in the actual game.)

[Gil R.]

jchastain,
Regarding the higher ratings in cavalry, I'm wondering if you still think that's significant if one considers that their other four ratings generally are a bit lower to compensate. I did eyeball each and come up with an approximate overall average rating (leadership+tactics+initiatve+command+cavalry/5), which shows that not everyone with a 6-8 cavalry rating has an especially high rating overall. (If you still have the data entered into your computer, I'd be curious to know how their average values compare with those for the generals who have no cavalry ratings.)

U.S.A.:
P. Sheridan: 7, 6, 7, 7, 8 = 7
J. Buford: 6, 6, 6, 7, 7 = 6.5
George A. Custer: 6, 3, 6, 5, 7 = 5
David McM. Gregg: 3, 3, 5, 6, 7 = 5

C.S.A.
J.E.B. Stuart: 7, 7, 7, 7, 8 = 7
N.B. Forrest: 7, 7, 8, 6, 8 = 7
E. Van Dorn: 4, 3, 6, 4, 5 = 4.5
R.S. Ewell: 4, 4, 3, 4, 4 = 4
W. Hampton: 5, 5, 6, 5, 5 = 5
J. Wheeler: 6, 6, 6, 6, 7 = 6
Fitzhugh Lee: 5, 3, 6, 6, 8 = 5.5
Joseph O. Shelby: 5, 3, 6, 3, 6 = 4.5

[Williamb]

I think should be pointed out that Lee would probably start at a higher rank than Grant. Other than his "Granny" campaign in WV he was the commander of the ANV.
 
Whereas Grant would probably start at the equivalant of Corps command.

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: William Amos

I think should be pointed out that Lee would probably start at a higher rank than Grant. Other than his "Granny" campaign in WV he was the commander of the ANV.

Whereas Grant would probably start at the equivalant of Corps command.

All generals enter the game as one-stars and it's up to the player to promote them as he sees fit.

[keystone]

I know being critical is the easiest part, but some Cavalry leaders are lacking in the tactical catagory.  Custer did not do so well against the Indians, but his use of dismounts(started by Buford) and shock assaults won many a day.  Forrest had no equal on the battlefield at the brigade and division level.   And Fitz Lee a '3', come on, I cannot let that pass.  F. Lee's worst perfomances came when southern horseflesh was depleted.  But this is just my opinion.  I have been into the Civil War since elementary school and can't wait to see what this game looks like.

[jchastain]

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

jchastain,
Regarding the higher ratings in cavalry, I'm wondering if you still think that's significant if one considers that their other four ratings generally are a bit lower to compensate.

Sorry I've been slow to respond. Things have been too busy around here.

Anyway, yes I do still think it is an issue. In the graph above, the X axis is the scores and the Y axis is the number of generals (100 and 25 percenters combined) who received that score. So...

There are more cavalry commanders with an 8 than with a 7. There are more with a 7 than with a 6. In a normal distribution, you expect the highest scores to be rare and to really signify the absolute creme of the crop.

I would expect THE preeminent cavalry commander of the war to have an 8. Maybe, MAYBE, if you can't pick just one then it will be a tie with two getting that score. But instead, nearly 40% of those with a cavalry score got an 8.

Put another way, despite the fact that cavalry generals are the rarest, there are more who have a 8 in cavalry than there are who have an 8 in any of the other attributes. No other attribute awarded as many 8's. In fact, there are as many 8's in cavalry as there are in tactics and leadership COMBINED!

[Williamb]

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

ORIGINAL: William Amos

I think should be pointed out that Lee would probably start at a higher rank than Grant. Other than his "Granny" campaign in WV he was the commander of the ANV.

Whereas Grant would probably start at the equivalant of Corps command.

All generals enter the game as one-stars and it's up to the player to promote them as he sees fit.

Thats a bit odd. Is no reason to promote a McClellan or Burnside or Banks or Ben Butler other than to allow them more troops to command.

Just out of curiousity sake how many generals does each side start with ?

[jimwinsor]

I have to say I'm a bit dismayed at how well John Bell Hood came out in the polls (6,6,6,5,0)...after all, after rising to army command later in the war, "disaster" is the only word that can describe his performance.
 
Even his old commander Lee correctly predicted the appointment was going to be a not entirely good one, when his advice on the matter was sought.
 

[spruce]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Hey, that is fun!  It looks bimodal.

yeah, spotted that to.

I think people find it a lot easier to state a judgement "he's good or he's bad" then to give an "average" meaning neither meat nor fish.

I think the figures would be better if most right hand curves get a one point to the left. Imho, too many generals scored 8 marks compared to the rest.

I also agree that Grant should get somewhat lower points compared to Lee.

[lvaces]

Looking over the voted generals' ratings, I find that I am, in general (get it [;)]), most impressed at how reasonable the voted rankings are.  While not always what I would have done (or did do), an arguable case can be made for almost all these ratings.  Good job crew.  I do have a couple quibbles ... and they are the same as have been mentioned above.  We did get carried away on some of the cav generals.  Fitz Lee is not an 8, and no way is Custer a 7 (a 5 at the highest).  And Hood came out of this stronger than he deserves.  By our ratings, replacing J Johnston with Hood is now a good move.  Is there anyone who disagrees that actually doing it in the war was a blunder?