Fast Transport Bug???
Moderators: Joel Billings, wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
Fast Transport Bug???
Version 1.795
Turn 1: Pick up troops from Tulagi and bring back to Rabaul.
Turn 1: Pick up troops from Tulagi and bring back to Rabaul.
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RE: Fast Transport Bug
Next turn: Fleet never left but troops magically appear...
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RE: Fast Transport Bug
Looks like they left and picked up the troops and returned - notice that the ENDUR went from 4750 to 4390. Not sure the hex distance but it looks like a 260 mile round trip. Maybe they shaved some mileage off this (should be more than that each way!!)
RE: Fast Transport Bug
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Looks like they left and picked up the troops and returned - notice that the ENDUR went from 4750 to 4390. Not sure the hex distance but it looks like a 260 mile round trip. Maybe they shaved some mileage off this (should be more than that each way!!)
20 hexes in one turn??? Even with used op points???
RE: Fast Transport Bug
ORIGINAL: Tanaka
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Looks like they left and picked up the troops and returned - notice that the ENDUR went from 4750 to 4390. Not sure the hex distance but it looks like a 260 mile round trip. Maybe they shaved some mileage off this (should be more than that each way!!)
20 hexes in one turn??? Even with used op points???
Yeah - results like this might explain how bombardment TFs can manage to do what they do. They literally are using warp drive so they can move 5X as fast as they are supposed to (the distance is 20 hexes, and this TF only steamed about 4 hexes worth, and again they did already use up OP points as you have pointed out.)
EDIT - Perhaps under certain circumstances, the IJN First Turn movement bonus gets turned on again?
RE: Fast Transport Bug
Thinking on this, this might explain a lot - like the results that PzB got in his attack on Nomad. This needs looking into...
RE: Fast Transport Bug
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Thinking on this, this might explain a lot - like the results that PzB got in his attack on Nomad. This needs looking into...
I did the same command to pick up troops at Nedini and the same fleet moved only 9 hexes to Nedini...
I will send a save to Mike Wood...
- jwilkerson
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RE: Fast Transport Bug
For what it is worth - I have done a whole pile of "Fast Trans" evacutations in my games as of late ( my three PBEMs as Japanese are in Dec 42, June 43 and Oct 43 ) ... and at ranges above one day's steaming my cycle is usually something like.
1. Refuel and unload TF at home base changing speed to cruise
2. Plot pick up mission changing speed to full
3. Watch TF go a few hexes out from home base and "line up " the run into the target pick up hex.
4. TF zooms to pickup hex - picking up unit and returning to home base with unit aboard no unloading.
Repeat as desired.
So I haven't seen exactly what you're seeing - but the step 4 can be more than 12 hexes - in my example in question ( Admiralty to Dobodura ) it is more like 16. But the cycle takes more than 1-2 turns. All my games are 1.6 ( current production patch ).
1. Refuel and unload TF at home base changing speed to cruise
2. Plot pick up mission changing speed to full
3. Watch TF go a few hexes out from home base and "line up " the run into the target pick up hex.
4. TF zooms to pickup hex - picking up unit and returning to home base with unit aboard no unloading.
Repeat as desired.
So I haven't seen exactly what you're seeing - but the step 4 can be more than 12 hexes - in my example in question ( Admiralty to Dobodura ) it is more like 16. But the cycle takes more than 1-2 turns. All my games are 1.6 ( current production patch ).
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- testarossa
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RE: Fast Transport Bug
DDs can have speed of 38 knots, which in game terms is 7 hexes per phase. may be this is a real speed even if it shows 6(3) on TF screen?
- jwilkerson
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RE: Fast Transport Bug
Not quite fast enough to explain my example - not nearly enough to explain Tanaka's example ... you'll need to super-charge that thing !
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
The "reason" for this, since everybody has forgotten the manual, is.
A TF gets to move at 2x its speed when returning to its home base, if it's within x2 range of its speed allowance.
This is why Bombardment TF can't be caught.
This is also why submarines can't seem to catch Transport TF's.
All returning TF's get to warp back to their home port.
Maybe this needs to be done away with.
Instead a constant TF speed should be applied. No "bonus" move for going home.[;)]
A TF gets to move at 2x its speed when returning to its home base, if it's within x2 range of its speed allowance.
This is why Bombardment TF can't be caught.
This is also why submarines can't seem to catch Transport TF's.
All returning TF's get to warp back to their home port.
Maybe this needs to be done away with.
Instead a constant TF speed should be applied. No "bonus" move for going home.[;)]
- Bradley7735
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
ORIGINAL: Halsey
The "reason" for this, since everybody has forgotten the manual, is.
A TF gets to move at 2x its speed when returning to its home base, if it's within x2 range of its speed allowance.
This is why Bombardment TF can't be caught.
This is also why submarines can't seem to catch Transport TF's.
All returning TF's get to warp back to their home port.
Maybe this needs to be done away with.
Instead a constant TF speed should be applied. No "bonus" move for going home.[;)]
Huh??!?!?! That's new to me. I guess I missed it in the manual. I don't think i've seen it's effects either. i have never noticed a difference between outbound and inbound task forces.
The older I get, the better I was.
RE: Fast Transport Bug???
ORIGINAL: Halsey
The "reason" for this, since everybody has forgotten the manual, is.
A TF gets to move at 2x its speed when returning to its home base, if it's within x2 range of its speed allowance.
This is why Bombardment TF can't be caught.
This is also why submarines can't seem to catch Transport TF's.
All returning TF's get to warp back to their home port.
Maybe this needs to be done away with.
Instead a constant TF speed should be applied. No "bonus" move for going home.[;)]
Wasn't aware of this. If it is true, there is no real reason for it, and it should be done away with - it doesn't make sense ship speed should magically increase!
Even if this is true - the example gave Tanaka shouldn't happen. It showed it only moved 260 miles, and in reality it moved over 1000 miles (looking at the endurance figures) -
Figuring in some time loss due to OP points used - this is an average speed of about 50 mph - similar to what Nomad was complaining about (assuming it took place in a 24 hour period, and not just overnight. If it was done in a night phase, the speed jumps to almost 100 mph!)
RE: Fast Transport Bug???
Been like this since UV.[;)]
It should done away with.[:D]
Then Bombardment TF's "could" be caught, and subs might get more contacts/attacks on Transport TF's.
The example at the top may be an abnormality of the home base movement bonus.
Only when a ship refuels in the TF does it seem to mess up the bonus move.
It should done away with.[:D]
Then Bombardment TF's "could" be caught, and subs might get more contacts/attacks on Transport TF's.
The example at the top may be an abnormality of the home base movement bonus.
Only when a ship refuels in the TF does it seem to mess up the bonus move.
- testarossa
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
On the first screen it shows that TF has to travel 22 hexes, 11 to Tulagi and 11 back.
660 nautical miles with speed 38 is 17.37 hours. So for return trip it has only 6.63 hours. To cover 660 miles it will have to move with 99.52 knots speed. this is 2.62 times over the actual speed. All this considering that loading didn't take any time.
And here is the manual. May be there is something between the lines there, but i fail to see it.
660 nautical miles with speed 38 is 17.37 hours. So for return trip it has only 6.63 hours. To cover 660 miles it will have to move with 99.52 knots speed. this is 2.62 times over the actual speed. All this considering that loading didn't take any time.
And here is the manual. May be there is something between the lines there, but i fail to see it.
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- jwilkerson
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
Thanks Halsey ! - see - we need you - you can't go !!! [:D][;)]
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- jwilkerson
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
Maybe the magic words are "sprint away from DH" ... regardless of meaning - the actions on the board seem to agree with what Halsey is saying - this explains why my units may take more than one turn to get to the target but only spend one turn going in - picking up and returning to base.
Though how Tanaka gets all the way down there and back in one turn is even a step farther that what I'm normally seeing ...
Though how Tanaka gets all the way down there and back in one turn is even a step farther that what I'm normally seeing ...
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
Well, if you calculate in the OPS points (180), the TF had 19.68 hours to move 1320 miles, or had to move at an average speed of 67.1 mph (i am assuming the hexes are statute miles, not nautical ones). Again, assuming ZERO load times for the troops.
- testarossa
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RE: Fast Transport Bug???
It has to be nautical miles, because vessel speed is in knots, and knot is 1 nautical mile per hour.
RE: Fast Transport Bug???
ORIGINAL: testarossa
It has to be nautical miles, because vessel speed is in knots, and knot is 1 nautical mile per hour.
There was a recent thread about this. While SHIP speeds are in knots, aircraft speed and (apparently) maps are in statute miles, not nautical miles. This (of course) is a source of continuing confusion...