TOAW vs GG-WITE

[nukkxx5058]

Hi, I have the two games and love them both without been able to decide which one I prefer despite the fact they are quite different. So I would be interested to read your comments about these two games in terms of gameplay and which one you prefer in general and why. Your pros and cons ...
How about the specific 41-45 campaign in TOAW vs WITE ?
Thx

[Olorin]

This is easy.
WitE is not a competitor to TOAW, it is a competitor to TOAW's equivalent eastern front scenarios. The best barbarossa scenario is (imho) Drang nach Osten (DNO, not available in stock, you have to download it).

DNO comes easily on top. It just reeks of quality. It's regimental level, 10Km/hex, half week turns, which I think it's the perfect scale for this operation.
WitE is full week turns, divisional scale, 16Km/hex and it feels arcade to me.

Now, add to the above the hundreds of scenarios TOAW can offer (of unequal quality to be sure) for half the price WitE costs and the choice becomes even easier. I consider buying WitE a waste of money.

WitW on the other hand I'd consider buying, because TOAW doesn't have an equivalent western front scenario (yet).

[nukkxx5058]

and it feels arcade to me

Ouch ! [:D]

[BigDuke66]

I wouldn't say arcade but yes these basics never felt right to me. Turns are too long, and units like hexes are too large.
Gee I wish someone would work over DNO or McBride would come back.

[odoakr]

ORIGINAL: Olorin
The best barbarossa scenario is (imho) Drang nach Osten (DNO, not available in stock, you have to download it).

Any idea where to download it? Rugged defense has downloads disabled.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: odoakr

ORIGINAL: Olorin
The best barbarossa scenario is (imho) Drang nach Osten (DNO, not available in stock, you have to download it).

Any idea where to download it? Rugged defense has downloads disabled.

When in doubt... ask the Kraut... you want the DNO? see attached. Found v3.71; incl. this one now in the .ZIP.

Klink, Oberst

[Silvanski]

Oberst_Klink



When in doubt... ask the Kraut... you want the DNO? see attached. Found v3.71; incl. this one now in the .ZIP.

Klink, Oberst

I'm tempted to release my TOAW Redux version of GiO (with Soviet PO!!) if there is enough demand for it.
DMcB scenarios have always been passed around in dark alleyways

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

I'm tempted to release my TOAW Redux version of GiO (with Soviet PO!!) if there is enough demand for it.

Yes, I demand it.[:@]
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Please?[&o]

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: Olorin
Yes, I demand it.[:@]
Please?[&o]

Let me get a second opinion...[;)]

What do you think Klink[&:]

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

ORIGINAL: Olorin
Yes, I demand it.[:@]
Please?[&o]

Let me get a second opinion...[;)]

What do you think Klink[&:]

PO... well, if you got the time, sure go ahead. Did you have a look at v3.71 I dug out? Like with most other scenarios (at least that's my SOP), I check the AD, MRPB, other minor settings, such as AAA lethality, Hex conversion/Readiness/Movement costs, supply radius, extended supply and adjust it as good as it gets to take the new features into account.

Atm I am play-testing the latest Kharkov '43 of mine (still not happy with the TO&E of the German Div/Korps/Armee HQs though...) and preparing for the Tutorial '50s series... for the latter, nobody seems to be willing to answer even my map creation request

Klink, Oberst

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

PO... well, if you got the time, sure go ahead.

Red Army PO was set up years ago, and it works

Like with most other scenarios (at least that's my SOP), I check the AD, MRPB, other minor settings..

Same here, yes some minor tweaks have to be made...

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

PO... well, if you got the time, sure go ahead.

Red Army PO was set up years ago, and it works

Like with most other scenarios (at least that's my SOP), I check the AD, MRPB, other minor settings..

Same here, yes some minor tweaks have to be made...

As per PM... supply and extended should be tested, Elmer vs Elmer; as well as the RR repair... that always seems to be the crux of those monsters...

I do suggest, if that's OK with thee, to combine our resources, ideas and so on. I am lucky that I can work from home 24/7

Klink, Oberst

[marion61]

The zip file you attached for DNO refers to a scenario document file that is mandatory reading for informed play and understanding, but there is no doc file in the zip file. Just the .sce and .bmp file are present.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: marion61

The zip file you attached for DNO refers to a scenario document file that is mandatory reading for informed play and understanding, but there is no doc file in the zip file. Just the .sce and .bmp file are present.

Patience, my young Jedi...attached. As the saying goes. Never doubt a Kraut!

Klink, Oberst

[odoakr]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
When in doubt... ask the Kraut... you want the DNO? see attached. Found v3.71; incl. this one now in the .ZIP.

Thanks, buddy!

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

ORIGINAL: Olorin
Yes, I demand it.[:@]
Please?[&o]

Let me get a second opinion...[;)]

You're ugly too [:D]

[nukkxx5058]

I found this thread comparing the two games but it's rather very negative for TOAW as it is from the WITE forum ...
Any comments ?

tm.asp?m=2476986&mpage=1&key=operationa ... r&#2477507

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

I found this thread comparing the two games but it's rather very negative for TOAW as it is from the WITE forum ...
Any comments ?

tm.asp?m=2476986&mpage=1&key=operationa ... war�

It all boils down to taste, preference and what different game engines try to achieve, reflect. WitE has producion, it's operational/strategic, it focuses on one specific theatre, and it does a good job. TOAW, and again I have to point out that it is, after all, an operational wargame construction set, perfectly suited for...well, operations up to a specific length (incl. CFNA I might add). E.g. If you compare shorter scenarios in WitE, e.g. all 4 battles of Kharkov, the 2 battles of Kiev, Bargration... it ain't up to the job. TOAW however is, because of the scale and things like the event engine. As many of you should know by now, I love the operational stuff, as in manoeuvring battalions, regiments, the combined arms stuff TOAW offers and simulates nicely. I ain't care about detailed flyboys or tin cans on the oceans...

Klink, Oberst

[Lobster]

This has gone over sooo many times. It's beating a dead horse. [:D]

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

This has gone over sooo many times. It's beating a dead horse. [:D]

I didn't start the thread ~~ I am keen to update my Kharkov '43 and release the next tutorials and I am happy as Larry, so to say.

Klink, Oberst