Oddities

Fury Games has now signed with Matrix Games, and we are working together on the next Strategic Command. Will use the Slitherine PBEM++ server for asynchronous multi-player.

Moderators: MOD_Strategic_Command_3, Fury Software

gravyface_
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:25 pm

Oddities

Post by gravyface_ »

Tanks, heavy or otherwise, seem woefully inadequate, with limited usefulness unless in a clean-up role against weakened units with no entrenchment value. I get it, kind of, but I think I'd rather spend money on a good ol' Army or Tactical Bomber (see below).

Tactical bombers, on the other hand, are bringers of pain, on a scale that's almost comical. I honestly think I could take Mother Russia with Garrisons and Tactical Bombers, they're so effective at level 3 and higher.

What's with the surprise-but-not-surprised behaviour? In other games of this ilk, you generally get a surprise penalty moving into a hex occupied by an enemy unit, not adjacent to it.
William049
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by William049 »

I totally agree. The best use for Axis tanks, I have found, is to encircle units or groups of units to cut off supply.
They need to be "punched up" a bit in attack value.
KorutZelva
Posts: 1539
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:35 am

RE: Oddities

Post by KorutZelva »

Actually maybe we needs lower defense stats across the board?

I mean, it feels like WW 1 at time.
User avatar
Bylandt11
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:01 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by Bylandt11 »

I don't agree at all. I don't know how other people use their tanks, but for me they are the spearhead of each attack. They move fast, have two attacks and can smash most of the opposition. Entrenchment lowers their damage, but that goes for all atackers.
User avatar
OxfordGuy3
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:44 pm
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

RE: Oddities

Post by OxfordGuy3 »

Tanks are not meant to be that powerful in non-clear terrain, surely? Tac bombers do seem a little overpowered at higher tech levels, though perhaps less so if the opponent has upgraded the AA capabilities of their units?
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his" - George S. Patton
User avatar
Seminole
Posts: 2237
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 am

RE: Oddities

Post by Seminole »

The best use for Axis tanks, I have found, is to encircle units or groups of units to cut off supply.

"Der Motor des Panzers ist ebenso seine Waffe wie die Kanone."
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
User avatar
OxfordGuy3
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:44 pm
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom

RE: Oddities

Post by OxfordGuy3 »

ORIGINAL: Seminole
The best use for Axis tanks, I have found, is to encircle units or groups of units to cut off supply.

"Der Motor des Panzers ist ebenso seine Waffe wie die Kanone."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his" - George S. Patton
Ason
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:14 am

RE: Oddities

Post by Ason »

ORIGINAL: gravyface_
What's with the surprise-but-not-surprised behaviour? In other games of this ilk, you generally get a surprise penalty moving into a hex occupied by an enemy unit, not adjacent to it.

Exactly! If this would change maybe axis players could reach objectives on time...

In many cases it's impossible to move forward because you know there will be an enemy but you can't move up to it because you will be "surprised".... It feels so wrong and really hinders ones ability to use spearheads correctly...
You basically just keep running into "surprise walls"... The frustrating thing is when you know there is an enemy but you will still get surprised...

So I completely agree, "surprise"/ambushes should only happen if you actually move into the same hex as an enemy.
User avatar
sPzAbt653
Posts: 9936
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am
Location: east coast, usa

RE: Oddities

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I don't like the surprise mechanic either, but we can't move into enemy occupied hexes so I don't know why that is being discussed ?
Again not defending surprises, but aren't we supposed to use our recon assets to uncover these hidden units ?

Gameplay-wise, these surprise attacks kinda ruined the game for me back at the beginning. As Slobo put it so well they stop advances, plus leave the most important units exposed to quick elimination as a unit that is surprised takes casualties and ends it movement [leaving it prime for counterattack during the opponents turn]. So I went into the editor and gave HQ's a spotting range of 6, and Carriers and Capital Ships that had spotter planes also a spotting range of 6. This works fairly well on land, but as spotting does not occur until a unit moves it does not work so well at sea [with a spotting range of 6 units can move 5 hexes at at time, which is kind of silly].

I feel that the real culprit is the Fog of War, which completely hides most units normally unless they are adjacent, which doesn't seem proper for a strategic game at this scale.
User avatar
freeboy
Posts: 8969
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Colorado

RE: Oddities

Post by freeboy »

move close wait andwatch if you dont use all your action points you can move again without a penalty.. its a bug imo
"Tanks forward"
johnvmcnichols1973
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:47 am

RE: Oddities

Post by johnvmcnichols1973 »

Agreed, I have come to anticipate that EVERY city will have a unit in it on the Russian front. SO I have to tread carefully otherwise every one of my many armored units gets stopped cold. I dont even intend to attack the city, just encircle it.
William049
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by William049 »

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Actually maybe we needs lower defense stats across the board?

I mean, it feels like WW 1 at time.

That could be it. It doesn't seem plausible that attacking a Corp with zero entrenchment could result I loss of a third of your tanks. Especially when they are full strength with full upgrades.
gravyface_
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:25 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by gravyface_ »

I think units retreating more often or units surrendering (particularly when surrounded) would be a big improvement and far more realistic.

I'm still enjoying the game, but there are definitely some head-scratchers with play balance and mechanics here; it's like it wasn't really play-tested enough while in beta, particularly when there's so much Strategic Command legacy gameplay to lean on.
Ason
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:14 am

RE: Oddities

Post by Ason »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I don't like the surprise mechanic either, but we can't move into enemy occupied hexes so I don't know why that is being discussed ?

Yeah, but what I mean is if you want to move into hexes covered by FOW, then you can order your units to move there even if there are enemies occupying it. Your unit will of course get stopped in the adjacent hex, and that is what I call a real "surprise". When you thought you could move into a hex but it turns out there was already an enemy unit, so you got surprised and possibly ambushed. Right now you get surprised even if you just move into an empty hex next to an enemy unit, and that is what I think is wrong.
User avatar
sPzAbt653
Posts: 9936
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am
Location: east coast, usa

RE: Oddities

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Ah, thanks for the clarification Slobo, now I get it [sometimes I am too dense]. But I still think the whole thing is wrong, probably mainly because a land unit can spot an enemy and avoid surprises, but only if it moves one hex at a time. This doesn't make sense to me [a corp or army not knowing of the existence of an enemy corps or army in its path]. And why is only the mover surprised? Why can't the enemy be surprised ? And why does spotting only occur after movement instead of during ? If spotting occurred during movement then a friendly unit could stop when an enemy was spotted, avoiding casualties, lost movement and almost certain elimination.
gravyface_
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:25 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Ah, thanks for the clarification Slobo, now I get it [sometimes I am too dense]. But I still think the whole thing is wrong, probably mainly because a land unit can spot an enemy and avoid surprises, but only if it moves one hex at a time. This doesn't make sense to me [a corp or army not knowing of the existence of an enemy corps or army in its path]. And why is only the mover surprised? Why can't the enemy be surprised ? And why does spotting only occur after movement instead of during ? If spotting occurred during movement then a friendly unit could stop when an enemy was spotted, avoiding casualties, lost movement and almost certain elimination.

To me I just don't understand why they're messing with a mechanic that's tried and true, like surprise. I mean, it worked for Panzer General 25 years ago, why mess with it now?
User avatar
sPzAbt653
Posts: 9936
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am
Location: east coast, usa

RE: Oddities

Post by sPzAbt653 »

why mess with it now?
Because, it sucks.
it worked for Panzer General 25 years ago
Human Sacrifice used to work quite well also.

[;)]
gravyface_
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:25 pm

RE: Oddities

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
why mess with it now?
Because, it sucks.
it worked for Panzer General 25 years ago
Human Sacrifice used to work quite well also.

[;)]

Care to elaborate?
User avatar
sPzAbt653
Posts: 9936
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am
Location: east coast, usa

RE: Oddities

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Not really, it takes too long to type and I've said it all before in other posts. But as you ask, I will give a little. Move one hex at a time and after each unit moves it 're-spots', revealing enemy units nearby. Moving two hexes at a time there is no spotting from the first hex, only from the second hex when movement has ended. This isn't logical, and I end up playing by moving each unit one hex at a time, land and naval units. It's tedious and unnecessary.

Each unit on the map should be represented by something. Depending on the level of recon, either a fully revealed unit, a unit showing only the type, or something in between. It's a Strategic game and how are we supposed to plan our strategy if we don't have a clue what we are facing. Plus, if this were the mechanic then no more surprise attacks. YAY !

Just my opinion [:)]
User avatar
BillRunacre
Posts: 5781
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:57 pm
Contact:

RE: Oddities

Post by BillRunacre »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Not really, it takes too long to type and I've said it all before in other posts. But as you ask, I will give a little. Move one hex at a time and after each unit moves it 're-spots', revealing enemy units nearby. Moving two hexes at a time there is no spotting from the first hex, only from the second hex when movement has ended. This isn't logical, and I end up playing by moving each unit one hex at a time, land and naval units. It's tedious and unnecessary.

Just to clarify that it's based not on how far you move, but when you commit a move, so it will re-spot after the first commitment, but not after any subsequent ones.

So if your unit charges off into the hinterland without any prior reconnaissance then it may well collide with a previously unspotted unit. But a more cautious advance, or one that follows a reconnoitered route, won't do so.
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FurySoftware

We're also on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/FurySoftware/
Post Reply

Return to “Strategic Command WWII War in Europe”