Needs for improvement

Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC.

It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player’s maneuvers.

Moderators: Peter Fisla, Paullus

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Micke II
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Paris France

Needs for improvement

Post by Micke II »

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.

Paullus
Posts: 1092
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:41 am
Location: Sweden

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Paullus »

There is a way for your point 9. Check out this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4042900
For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus
idjester
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:37 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by idjester »

ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.


I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.



Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Gerry4321 »

We don't have to think about copying ASL but rather what features are common in tactical games. The beauty of TotH is that it automates rules for us. So features like walls, wire etc. could be added. Of course it will take programming but that is what Peter and expansions can do. Looks like the community is already providing content with more to come from Jorgen.
idjester
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:37 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by idjester »

ORIGINAL: Gerry

We don't have to think about copying ASL but rather what features are common in tactical games. The beauty of TotH is that it automates rules for us. So features like walls, wire etc. could be added. Of course it will take programming but that is what Peter and expansions can do. Looks like the community is already providing content with more to come from Jorgen.

Sure adding in some features to the game would be great and we all would look forward to that but trying to change TOTH to be an exact copy of ASL would be unrealistic at best.

There are certain things I am sure can be added but TOTH but its not going to end up being an exact copy of ASL.
Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Gerry4321 »

I don't think I have ever seen you request a feature?
kylania
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:42 pm
Contact:

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by kylania »

ORIGINAL: idjester

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.

Nope. You can just let them express what they want from this game just like you have. Constantly coming down on new customers because they want something different than you is not helpful.

Peter is free to add or not add any feature he wants just as he's free to ignore or incorporate any feedback or suggestions as he wants.
Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Gerry4321 »

ORIGINAL: kylania

ORIGINAL: idjester

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.

Nope. You can just let them express what they want from this game just like you have. Constantly coming down on new customers because they want something different than you is not helpful.

Peter is free to add or not add any feature he wants just as he's free to ignore or incorporate any feedback or suggestions as he wants.

+1
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FroBodine
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:13 am
Location: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by FroBodine »

+100. The original poster in this thread said nothing about making this game exactly like ASL.

Micke II simply listed a bunch of stuff that would be great to have in the game. Most of the items suggested don't necessarily have to add complexity and pages of rules to the game. Simplify them and let us play with them.

Sure, some of it is not necessary. But, there is still a ton of stuff missing from this game that a tactical game of this scale needs. And, it has all been mentioned in this forum in one thread or another.

If you're going to be a bully and silence everyone's suggestions, then this game will stagnate, and I will have no interest in this community.

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wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
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RE: Needs for improvement

Post by wodin »

No we don't need them...however what people are really waiting for with regards of a tactical wargame is one that has all the things you mentioned.

A game going for the look and feel of ASL in my opinion has to have what makes ASL ..ASL..abnd that is all the depth and detail. Then the beauty would be all hose rules etc going on unde rthe hood!

I truely hope over time TotH does have as many of the things you've mentioned as a feature. Then I'd buy in an instant and could garuntee it would become an all time classic.

ORIGINAL: idjester
ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.


I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.



dox44
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 8:00 am
Location: the woodlands, texas

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by dox44 »

so the real question for some then becomes how much closer can TotH get to ASL and remain 'inspired'...assuming that TotH is the result of addition that may give some hope...but it
may be the product of subtraction in which case fix the bugs, clean the UI and give them a couple of countries is the reality.

still not a bad deal at all for $49.00.







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DoubleDeuce
Posts: 1235
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Crossville, TN
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RE: Needs for improvement

Post by DoubleDeuce »

I think one thing people need to remember is that, the closer this game comes to being 'exactly like ASL', the sooner the Hasborg lawyers will put a stop to it and that will be the end of TotH. IMHO, this is already an outstanding game, it just needs the adding of more content and further tweaks.
User avatar
Micke II
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Paris France

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Micke II »

ORIGINAL: idjester
ORIGINAL: Micke II

i have bought this game 2 weeks ago and I have great fun with it. The new scenarios designed from the ASL scenarios are particularly
valuable.
This game has all ingredients to become a must, nevertheless a lot of improvemenents need to be implemented.
1/ pick up of several units in the same hex: why there is no double click system with the mouse instead of use
the ctrl key which is really boaring.
2/ why there is no hidden system for units which has not yet fired ?
3/ there is no possibility to tow guns with vehicles or to carry infantry on AFV. It's really a pity.
4/ the off board artillery effects are sometimes not visible on the map because there is no scrolling system to follow actions on the map.
5/ there is no mines, neither wires.
6/ No human wawes.
7/ No beserk units or snipers or commissars.
8/ the system of demolition charges is broken.
9/ and the most worrying: there is no possibility to play human versus human on line.


I hate to say this again but I will.... "sigh"...

Tigers on the Hunt isn't an exact copy of ASL, this game is just "strongly inspired" by ASL. Therefore some of the rules for ASL will not be incorporated into the game. Players coming to these forums and constantly posting what "needs" to be added to the game just don't get it.

The ASL rulebook is over 400 pages long and do we really, really, need to add in all of those options into the game? No. Snipers- not needed. By-pass movement -not needed. Human wave -not needed. And the list goes on an on. The reason people don't want to get into and play ASL is because they spend 3/4 of their time in the rule book and looking up rules. And the rules that are added to ASL just make it more complex for NO real purpose. Memorize 4 more pages of rules just to add in one more feature. There comes a line that needs to be drawn where "complexity" overshadows "playability".

This game isn't going to be an exact copy of ASL, even if Peter spends all of his time working on it, It would take a team of programmers to try and incorporate all of the silly rules from ASL. For players to not appreciate what is "IN" the game is a darn shame. At least players can get in and play the game and have fun and not have to lookup every rule they aren't sure about.

I guess I just need to copy and paste this post for the next 20 people that come here telling us "what is missing" from the game.




I have never seen a game 100 % perfect in V1. My post was just asking improvements for some parts of the game. I am
a bit surprised by your post which is considering that everything is OK in the best world or as we say in French "go away
there is nothing to see"
I recognize my request on points 6 and 7 was inspired by ASL.
The point 1 is a normal request to improve ergonomy of the game.
Point 4 and 8 should be add in a new mod.
For point 9 I got an answer. Many thanks.
Point 2, 3, 5 should add chrome and fun to this game.
gregb41352
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:22 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by gregb41352 »

Well I for one hope TOTH doesn't become ASL. I don't feel like reading through pages
and pages of rules for an event that would happen once in every 10 scenarios.

Sure, I'd like to see more countries added (France :) and some other tweaks but Peter
is, understandably, concentrating on bug fixes and other issues right now. There does
seem to be an issue with British demo charges...I can't get them to work.

Those that want to play ASL......just play ASL.
idjester
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:37 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by idjester »

There is already a forum to ask for additional features if that is what the original poster wanted to do. But infact his post was about things that are missing from the game and improvements to the game. Those improvements listed were infact directly related to making this game exactly like ASL.

There is a big difference between asking for things you would like in the game and stating that there are missing from the game. When you state things are missing from the game you are therefore "EXPECTING" certain things within the game. Meaning there are things you expect in the game which are not there. So you are comparing this game to something else --aka ASL.

The core of ASL is there, much more so than expected without all of the extra nonsense rules that bog the system down. If you want all of that BS stuff, that adds nothing to the game besides extra rules, than I would suggest you go out and do what Peter did and program the game yourself. But don't come here saying there are missing things in this game because you "expect" things to be exactly like ASL.

You can ask for additional features to be added beyond what is included in the game, which if you watched any of my videos you would have seen me suggest as well.



Gerry4321
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:40 am

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Gerry4321 »

Is ASL the only system that allows the towing of Guns, mines, etc? Of course not. He is just asking for what people want in a great tactical system.

You have taken on the role of a gatekeeper for Peter. Please just let people request what they would like without commentaries about how difficult it would be to implement.

The game will live or die based on the improvements over the next year or so. I bought it as I thought it was a good starting point and I am enjoying it. But I cannot wait for those multi-level buildings!
barkhorn45
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:19 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by barkhorn45 »

How is wanting afv's like HT carry inf.trying to make toth exactly like asl?
Or for that matter #3 or 4?
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Micke II
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Paris France

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by Micke II »

ORIGINAL: barkhorn45

How is wanting afv's like HT carry inf.trying to make toth exactly like asl?
Or for that matter #3 or 4?

Infantry tranport on AFV was a characteristic of the Russian tank armies which started in mid 1943. It's not a question of ASL or not ASL.
barkhorn45
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:19 pm

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by barkhorn45 »

I know I was responding to criticism of your post as to wanting to make Toth "exactly"like asl.
MikeMarchant_ssl
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:36 am

RE: Needs for improvement

Post by MikeMarchant_ssl »

It seems to me that Mickie II's post was entirely reasonable.

Vive la France!


Best Wishes

Mike
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