Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

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Bullwinkle58
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Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

[center]Welcome![/center]

This will be a first PBEM AAR by Bullwinkle58. All visitors welcome except 1EyedJacks. Please wipe your feet; the fridge is over there.

My esteemed Japanese opponent will be Mike AKA 1EyedJacks. Mike has previously played PBEM versus Nemo and Castor Troy (at least), and has experience with Japan. Mike and I are of similar age, both military vets, and at least one of us is devilishly handsome and quite something.

All are welcome to speak here, to offer advice (I may not take it), to kibitz and kvetch. My hope is this game, while it may not be a technical gem, will be different than most PBEM games detailed in this sub-forum. This is due to the underlying assumptions I laid out in my opponent wanted ad, and the practices Mike and I have agreed to follow. More on that below.

In this endeavor I have asked a personal advisor--RockyRoo (or as he writes it, Rocky Roo)--to stand by for ad hoc questions and strategic advice. All mistakes or poor play will be, of course, my fault. Mr. Roo is a frequent visitor to these parts, but I will leave it to him to self-identify if he wishes. It is also possible he will post in this AAR. He has assured one and all he will not read or participate in any AAR written by my opponent. Everyone, please, a round of applause.

The title of the AAR comes from a video sequence found in my old, venerable, TV show of the early 1960s. For many of you this link will play it in all its faded glory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY ... re=related

Technical Stuff

This will be a Scenario 2 game begun under the newest beta patch, 'E' version. If new versions appear and are stable we will probably upgrade. The E variant changes aviation support in fairly significant ways, as well as squashing some bugs and adding new interface tweaks.

Settings are:

Fog of War = ON
Advanced Weather = OFF
Allied Damage Control = ON
Player Defined Upgrades = ON
Historical 1st Turn = OFF
December 7th Surprise = ON
Reliable USN Torpedoes = OFF
Realistic R&D = OFF
No Unit Withdrawals = OFF
Auto Sub OPS = OFF
Reinforcement delays = Historical
Replacements, base expansions, auto upgrades = OFF

There are NO house rules. I repeat: NO HRs. Both sides will play to the code.

On the first turn, the Allied Moose is permitted to:

1. Give any and all orders to TFs at sea.
2. Give any and all orders to CAP units in the PI, Borneo, Burma, and Malaysia.
3. Give any and all orders to any unit in China, air and LCU. Logic being China was already at war with Japan.

Now, the no HR aspect was critical to me in looking for an opponent. Together with a desire to strongly focus on VPs and auto-victory as foundational aspects of the game design, I wanted a game which would test me to the Nth degree. Additionally, as is apparent from the settings agreed to above, R&D is favorable to the Japanese. Also, no HRs means there is no requirement to pay PPs for restricted units to cross borders.

For a more complete rendition of my reasons for seeking a game with these parameters please read my lengthy Opponents Wanted post.

The AAR

Following advice from a veteran PBEM player I, who was leery of the time needed to write an AAR, consulted the recently completed game between Cuttlefish and Charbroiled, described in Cuttlefish's AAR. That format, of summary renditions of several days' turns rather than a pure war diary format, is what I am initially aiming at here. Certain aspects of the game interest me more than others and will recieve greater emphasis (go subs!), but I will try to at least give a running flow on how the no-HR and auto-vic aspects of the game are running. I suspect that many readers will be following here in order to track those features as well. (Also to see how long before I'm moose steaks on the grill. [:'(])

It's fine if readers want to read both this and any AAR 1EJ writes. I only ask you to follow forum standards on Opsec and be aware that even innocent remarks can contain nibblets of intel nourishment. I don't expect to speak a lot to future operations, but even so, please be careful.

Sniping, crap throwing, and general joshing is fine and encouraged. Don't worry about hijacking or anything similar. I'm from unmoderated Usenet and it doesn't bother me. This sort of thing can fill in gaps where I might not be posting anything as well as go toward overwhelming both Canoerebel's and Greyjoy's AAR post count, which is, after all, the whole point of this thing.

More On No-HR

Over the years, Rocky Roo and I have had off-line discussions of a philosophical nature concerning house rules and auto-vic. My views have been modified by his penetrating analysis, but my stances were untested and thus suspect. I believe that AE is a game which departs history on the first turn and never looks back, and it is thus a fool's errand to try to impose later historical "truths" on in-game behavior. The game is also an abstraction with vast swaths of missing real-life territory such as political concerns, civilian populations, complex economies and currency valuation and taxation issues, etc. To me, playing AE as a sim, and furthermore without incorporating victory points into gameplay, is destined to lead to many/most games petering out long before the end points designed into the thing. That seems to me, in a multi-year investment, sad perhaps. Win or lose, I want to finish this thing. And the game as designed offers structured ways to do that if only players attend to them. To win, the Allies must dominate and achieve auto-victory while watching the clock. To win, the Japanese must only survive. This asymmetric balance is embedded in the game design. It's an interesting balance.

House rules, as they have evolved in the culture of the game and forum community, have come to be seen as mandatory for a "good" game without any or many "gamey" player practices. There is little agreement on what this latter term means, and thus little agreement on what constitutes a "good" set of HRs. Some sets are quite short. Others displayed in opponent ads are cumbersome at best. In perhaps the worst case, some games begin with a "no HRs" stance, but one or both palyers also have an expectation that they will discuss, or perhaps even litigate, emerging HRs as need be. In many cases we've seen these games end over disagreements in this area.

I beleive that AE is a strong, stable, robust model of what it seeks to represent, at the level and degree of abstraction it seeks to portray. In only one major area, that of national borders, do I think the devs have come out and said they stopped short of their design goals. As such, I offered an opponent the option of playing with PPs required to cross as a single HR, not because I think it matters in the long run since both sides benefit, but because this is an admitted area where the code stopped short. In all other cases I believe that the practices called gamey by many do in fact ALL have in-game counters, if only the possibilty of retaliation. On the flip side, playing without HRs offers a chance for a more flowing turn process and perhaps a speedier turn around time on moves. This remains to be seen in our game.

For the record, since Mike will someday read this, he did introduce a discussion of what exaclty I was planning to do re "gamey." This engendered a productive discussion in which I tried to lay out my views on such things as single ship ammo sponges and close-to-map-edge play. Simply put, I have never done these sorts of things in three years of playing the AI, because the AI plays to the code. I consider them fiddly, and I don't do fiddly. And I consider them open to turnabout, which provides balance and removes their utility in the long run of the game. I have said to Mike several times that no HRs means, to me, no HRs. He has asked about para frags and I have told him to go ahead. I have told him I will not feel restricted from non-base, non-dot invasions. And so on. We have mutually agreed to talk if one player feels it is absolutely necessary to do so, but I don't expect this to happen. I don't plan to do crappy, sneaky stuff, and neither does he.

Pollyannish? Perhaps. But one way or another I aim to prove to myself if AE can be played and enjoyed in this manner. I expect to lose; this is my first PBEM game and I have scores of bad practices learned in three years of AI play. But if do lose I aim to do it standing on both feet, swinging away, taking no prisoners and asking no quarter.

The games have begun. My first turn was delivered to my opponent two hours ago. Even as we speak the bombs are falling. At Pearl Harbor? At Manila? We shall see.

Pull up a chair . . .
The Moose
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by ny59giants »

My first ever PBEM was against 1EyedJack (Mike) back in the old WITP days. He still has nightmares of Boise sinking his transports. [:D] It was a mod called "Iron Storm" that was great fun, but my computer problems lingered for too long (would crash while playing WITP, but nothing else). Good luck as I will have trouble choosing sides.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

My first ever PBEM was against 1EyedJack (Mike) back in the old WITP days. He still has nightmares of Boise sinking his transports. [:D] It was a mod called "Iron Storm" that was great fun, but my computer problems lingered for too long (would crash while playing WITP, but nothing else). Good luck as I will have trouble choosing sides.

Ah, USS Boise. Were I had three of her . . .
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Dan Nichols »

I didn't realize that Mike was that handsome.

I have a game going where the only house rule we have is pay PPs to cross national borders.

This will be interesting considering you let him have Realistic R&D off and PDU on.
I think that the two obligations you have are to be good at what you do and then to pass on your knowledge to a younger person
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by DOCUP »

Yay, we get an AAR.  We don't want not Bull, moose, and no sneaky squirrel stuff. [:D]  Just a good fun game to follow.  I forsee you surpassing CR's hit count in 2 days.  Good luck and have fun.  Oh and I will only be reading your AAR.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

My first ever PBEM was against 1EyedJack (Mike) back in the old WITP days. He still has nightmares of Boise sinking his transports. [:D] It was a mod called "Iron Storm" that was great fun, but my computer problems lingered for too long (would crash while playing WITP, but nothing else). Good luck as I will have trouble choosing sides.

Ah, USS Boise. Were I had three of her . . .

Just ran the first turn combat replay. I now have none of her. <sob>

Will post something on first turn tomorrow. It was medium nasty. Right now trying to get Tracker to behave.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

I didn't realize that Mike was that handsome.

But of course! [:'(]

I have a game going where the only house rule we have is pay PPs to cross national borders.

This will be interesting considering you let him have Realistic R&D off and PDU on.

As nasty as the set-up allows. Dad always said I thought the shortest distance to the dinner table was through the wall.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Yay, we get an AAR.  We don't want not Bull, moose, and no sneaky squirrel stuff. [:D]  Just a good fun game to follow.  I forsee you surpassing CR's hit count in 2 days.  Good luck and have fun.  Oh and I will only be reading your AAR.

Welcome, welcome.

Hit count +1. YEEEEESSSSSSS.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Canoerebel »

Hey, Moose, it's great you're doing an AAR. The first time is always special and memorable, so I hope you're in for a rip-roaring game. I'll be reading and chiming in if I get an opportunity.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Chickenboy »

Well, if there's room for one bonafide JFB on your advisory panel, I'll offer my exclusive services to your AAR, Mr. Moose sir.

May I ask you to comment-as the game progresses-about the differences you note playing a CG PBEM versus a CG vs. the AI? This will be instructive to other exclusive AI players, I'd wager.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
But if do lose I aim to do it standing on both feet, swinging away, taking no prisoners and asking no quarter.

That's the spirit! BANZAI!

ETA: And one of several posts from me to SPAM this thread...[;)]
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by zuluhour »


Glad you decided to do the PBEM, glad to see your posting it, and will be very interested to see the no HR arena.



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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by GreyJoy »

[&o]
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by JocMeister »

I´m glad you decided to do an AAR! I will be around and offer what advice I can give. [:)]

Now that you are playing a human make sure you always plan for the most unexpected and catastrophic. Its usually what happens! [:D]

Good luck!
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by obvert »

I'm very excited to see this game going. A hearty good luck to you and I hope the PBEM gives you as much fun and satisfaction as it has me in my three games so far.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out without HRs. What are your thoughts on lower altitude 4E naval bombing? There is some precedence for it on a smaller scale in the war, and if you have well trained pilots dropping several hundred bombs from 2k over the KB, I wonder if that could be quite effective? I may find out in my game as my opponent (Torsten) asked to leave out any HRs against this. Any plans for low naval bombing with 4Es?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm very excited to see this game going. A hearty good luck to you and I hope the PBEM gives you as much fun and satisfaction as it has me in my three games so far.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out without HRs. What are your thoughts on lower altitude 4E naval bombing? There is some precedence for it on a smaller scale in the war, and if you have well trained pilots dropping several hundred bombs from 2k over the KB, I wonder if that could be quite effective? I may find out in my game as my opponent (Torsten) asked to leave out any HRs against this. Any plans for low naval bombing with 4Es?

Ok, I'll jump in here since I have sandboxed the low level heavy bomber thing. On turn one [no surprise/non historical start] I put the B-17s at Pearl Harbour at 1000 ft naval attack [along with every other bomber, except DBs at 10K]. There are only about 11 B-17 but they got through the CAP OK then suffered damage from the flak. They did get two bomb hits on two carriers, setting one on fire but no secondary explosions. Three B-17s failed to return.

The Bolos and SBD-1s achieved nothing and were slaughtered by Zekes and AA. Cats [48] with torps got four hits and lost only one, with 11 damaged.
P40Bs and Mohawks on escort were slaughtered but did take down about 8 Zekes.

Enterprise came in from the west, lost half her SBDs and 2/3 or her TBDs for no hits. In return she took three bombs and two torps.
Hope that gives you some ideas of what you can expect.

As for what JocMeister said about readiness for catastrophe, I think it involves strong drink and repeating the phrase "I asked for this game, I asked for this game ...."[:D]
Lotsa Luck Bullwinkle!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Captain Cruft »

Very brave, good luck :-)
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, Moose, it's great you're doing an AAR. The first time is always special and memorable, so I hope you're in for a rip-roaring game. I'll be reading and chiming in if I get an opportunity.

Turn about is fair play.[:)]

Good to have you aboard.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Well, if there's room for one bonafide JFB on your advisory panel, I'll offer my exclusive services to your AAR, Mr. Moose sir.

May I ask you to comment-as the game progresses-about the differences you note playing a CG PBEM versus a CG vs. the AI? This will be instructive to other exclusive AI players, I'd wager.

I will, although I hope as time progresses I get less of my current "that's interesting" feeling. (Or as Minnesotans like to say with a frozen smile, "That's different.") The biggest thing right now is feeling like no area of my depth is safe from penetration, either for raid or landing. Some things in the first turn don't make sense. I'll talk about them below.
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RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: zuluhour


Glad you decided to do the PBEM, glad to see your posting it, and will be very interested to see the no HR arena.

I hope that even if I lose I can convince more players to focus on VPs and the balanced victory system built into the game. No HRs are icing. It's possible the PPs to cross borders are really necessary. I'll see.
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