Night air combat

[hades1001]

Hi I just tried out night bombing with 4E bombers and my opponent tried to fly Tojos at night to stop me.

Here is the pleasant result for JFBs:

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Night Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 69



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 17
B-17F Fortress x 17
B-24D Liberator x 50


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 11 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged


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Night Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 32



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 8 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 20000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb


Any comments for this combat? Is it too unrealistic?

[Puhis]

90 heavy bombers flying night mission in thunderstorm, and shot down over 20 japanese non-night fighters? Sure it's realistic... [:(]

I think night air combat needs some "fine tuning"

[Bliztk]

I`m experiencing similar results
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Night Air attack on Rabaul , at 106,125
 
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
 
Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M3 Zero x 12
 
 
 
Allied aircraft
      B-24D Liberator x 3
 
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M3 Zero: 3 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      B-24D Liberator: 3 damaged
 
 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
               Port Attack:  5 x 500 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1/C with A6M3 Zero (3 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      3 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 12000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes
 

[Mike Solli]

Geez, guess I'm not going to try contesting night bombing for a while. [X(] [:(]

[Bliztk]

It`s with latest betapatch. If my guess is correct something is boosting the night bombers defensive fire

[Chickenboy]

Yeesh. It's issues like this that will make me want to stick with 'official' patches only until these gameplay problems are ironed out for good.

[Bliztk]

The improvement of betapatches clearly IMHO makes the betapatched version superior to the official one

[PaxMondo]

Without knowing the exp of the fighter, hard to say. 

I've been playing Downfall, and that's not consistent with what I see against B29's IF my NF pilots are +60 exp / +60 skill.  Even with good pilots, I'm not getting too many of the B29's (2-5% if my NF's match or exceed the 4E numbers).  However, I'm not losing too many NF's (<1%).

Biggest issue I have been having is even when my NF's intercept in numbers, the 4E's continue their attack irregardless.  In several hundred attacks, I have seen the 4E's break off their attack only once.  In comparison, my Helen II's on night attack break off attack about 50% of the time when intercepted.  Have not been able to identify any variable here other than medium bomber and heavy bomber .... and well of course, the AI is on Hard, but not aware that the AI setting has any impact upon air combat routines ... or does it?

[CT Grognard]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

90 heavy bombers flying night mission in thunderstorm, and shot down over 20 japanese non-night fighters? Sure it's realistic... [:(]

I think night air combat needs some "fine tuning"

All I can think of is that, with 69 Tojos trying to intercept 80+ 4E bombers at 21,000 feet at NIGHT and with THUNDERSTORMS there were mid-air collisions.

I would love to know what the moonlight was?

It takes a special kind of crazy to take off at night and in thunderstorms without ILS, never mind radar...

[Erkki]

Night air ops would need their own code routines separate from daytime. What I suppose happens is the bombers will still fly in formation even in night and get the formation bonus while fighter effectiveness is reduced due to darkness.

Pax, I've seen 4Es abort an attack run only once - when an A5M4 shot down the only B-17 that tried to hit my Zuiho TF. [;)][:D]

[Cavalry Corp]

I am on patch P6 and I would say I think i have seen night losses to fighters going up...

[hades1001]

Actually I shot down about 30 tojos, a whole Sentai of 70-80 exp pilots. And they are all KIA after the combat.

I lost nothing, maybe one bomber by ops. Maybe I should stop night bombing until it's fixed.

[Puhis]

IMO night bombing is so easy and overpowered that HRs are definitely needed anyway...

[Itdepends]

My opponent is also experiencing significant pain at contesting my 4E night bomber missions.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

IMO night bombing is so easy and overpowered that HRs are definitely needed anyway...

I'll be sure to tell my opponent .. .hold it, I play the AI. Who do I call? [X(][&:][X(]

ANDY!!! I need a house rule about night bombing!!! [:D][:D][:D]

[Lecivius]

I have never noticed this type of result.&nbsp; I have seen where an intercepted Night Bombing run was disruped by an interception.&nbsp; I don't really shoot anything down, but the damage is significantly less than when unopposed.
&nbsp;
I have no clue if this is WAD or not.

[zuluhour]

inexperienced B17E pilots (39-48) in raids of eight to ten ac have only scored 1 hit max per raid at night at above 10M (house rule for all night raids aand all 4E raids). newb 2 cents.

[spence]

The Japanese CAP of A6M2s has done quite well defending their KB against night torpedo attacks in my PBEM. Mere radar equipped Albatross and Swordfish lost roughly 1 bomber per attack in air to air to A6Ms equipped with the fearsome Mark I Mod 0 Eyeball while scoring no hits against any warship over the course of the moonlit parts of 2 months. The weather varied from good to bad. The bombers were mid-50s to mid-60s experience in torpedo attack.

(Interesting that the Brits get such short shrift considering that FAA torpedo bombers had conducted quite a number of night/low light/bad weather torpedo attacks against both German and Italian ships by Dec 7th, both in port and at sea: many of them inflicting damage on the enemy. Compare to the IJN's record of same by Sept-Nov 1942: the time frame of these actions).

[hades1001]

Here is the revenge of the Empire. I guess night bombing will be banned until it is fixed.

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Night Air attack on Charters Towers , at 91,145

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 79



Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 74 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 7 destroyed on ground
B-17F Fortress: 36 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 3 destroyed on ground
P-38F Lightning: 27 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 4 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 25 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed on ground
Hurricane IIc Trop: 3 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 1 destroyed on ground
P-70 Havoc: 2 damaged
P-70 Havoc: 2 destroyed on ground
Kittyhawk IA: 5 damaged
Kittyhawk IA: 2 destroyed on ground
P-40E Warhawk: 18 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 11 destroyed on ground
P-40K Warhawk: 1 damaged
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 74

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
20 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
26 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

[LoBaron]

I consider HR on night bombing mandatory, not that this is something new. [:)]